Most economical conversion 4 cylinder

peterericb · Post by **peterericb** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:38 am

Anonymous wrote:oh and to the people that keep reccomending aircooled oldskool vw engines, stop. your in the wrong forum. there is a reason that we don't want aircoold technology in our rides. because we are tired of messing with these things and sometimes different can be better, plus the coolness factor. everyone flips when they see a rotary engine in the back of my baja. plus what 1.2 litre bug engine pushes out 110hp with no juice or forced induction. also I noticed I can pull from a dead stop in 3rd gear with my bus tranny. my old 1641 dp with dual 40's could not do that even in its best day. power is fun, cheap power is funner.

1) he asked for an engine to fit his requirements and the VW ones do possibly better than any others mentioned so far... he didn't say "I want a neato engine" He said he wanted to go 70-75, be carborated, and light for cheap. And a 1600dp with a freeway flyer tranny can be had for VERY cheap. Especially since he is going to need the freeway flyer if he really wants to stick with a 4 cyl.

2) There are plenty of reasons to do a conversion (I am doing one for extreme horsepower and reliabity... 300hp+) but saving money isn't really a good reason unless you already have a hook-up on engines (as someone mentioned) and in that case, you don't need to ask which engine to use.

3) obviously rotary would be a good candidate except it fills every requirement but 1... 4-cylinder.

Bugzlife · Post by **Bugzlife** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:30 am

I was wondering last night will a 1600cc inline VW rabbit motor or the 1.8ltr bolt right to the aircooled transaxle, without an adaper plate? probably a flywheel change though?

Rotary, huh? I don't know maybe if I can find a good one cheap?

peterericb · Post by **peterericb** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:46 am

Bugzlife wrote:I was wondering last night will a 1600cc inline VW rabbit motor or the 1.8ltr bolt right to the aircooled transaxle, without an adaper plate? probably a flywheel change though?

Rotary, huh? I don't know maybe if I can find a good one cheap?

pretty sure you still need an adaptor plate
http://www.kennedyeng.com/vw_por.htm

If you are open to the idea of rotary then definatly check out http://www.rx7club.com they have classifieds (currently I think there is a 12A for 200 bucks.)

If I wasn't scared of rotary engines I might be going that route... although forced induction is a must for me and a RX7 turbo motor is more like $1500

BAVWCJoel · Post by **BAVWCJoel** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:48 am

Bugzlife wrote:I was wondering last night will a 1600cc inline VW rabbit motor or the 1.8ltr bolt right to the aircooled transaxle, without an adaper plate? probably a flywheel change though?

NO. you need an adapter for it.

http://www.kennedyeng.com/vw_por.htm

that's all the adaptors they sell..

here's a place that a couple of people already done them

http://bb.bbboy.net/vwengineconversions ... m?forum=14

i've seen 1 bug around where i live that had a rabbit 1.6L in it.. and is supposidily was a very quick ride. the guy drove it for years and years and would race it regularly. i thought about getting it, but he was wanting like 5k for the car.. and it was not worth it.. to me at least.

bean_8044 · Post by **bean_8044** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:52 am

you can still turbo a N/A rotary. If you look on RX7 club, go to the 1st Gen forum and theres lots of threads on it. Quite a few people have done it.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:28 pm

scared of the rotary? WTF? I never been scared of a engine yet. less than 10 moving parts in it. the turbo 12a will be putting you in the 200 hp club and in a buggy that will put you into the 11's easily(time for a cage). keep it NA until your tired of that hp and then turbo it......IF you have to.

I would find a engine that kennedy makes a adapter for before buying the adapter. then once you get the motor you can look for a used or buy new adapter. I bought mine used and had to buy the counterweight seperate from a guy on the rx7 forum. those guys are great but search before you ask questions or you will get flamed.

Now that I got the 12a up and running and semi street legal I cannot drive it enough. cold starts are awesome cause it just pops right off and sounds great. I have pulled it to 8000 rpm a couple times, and man it is amazing. The smoothness at idle and around town on solid mounts cannot be matched by any engine.

Go check out the RX-7 he mentioned before and you will find unlimited info and people more than willing to help.

I have a sidedraft dcoe, but you can get a completly rebuilt carb from a couple of rebuilders on the rx7 forums for around $300. You still use the factory intake(the factory carb in the later years is a 4bbl)and they are modified to your needs. $300 is cheap for a pretty tuned carb and they offer boost prepping I think now.

Post by **2088 bob** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:25 am

here is my inline bunny motor con version in a sandrail go to
http://frost.bbboy.net/vwengineconversi ... 4&thread=3
i have about 20000kms on this setup (and also drive it like i stole it) has never let me down i drive it whenever the weather will let me the car has gone 12.21@109mph this one is a stroker 2088cc dyno,ed at 161hp at 6500rpm it runs a pair of big webers lots of cam msd ign

INMHO which might not be worth sh?t i do not think you can find a better little 4 banger not to take anything away from the fords and the ecotechs

opinion on the fords i know for a fact that you can make more horsepower more cheaply with the ford .its a little heavy for my liking but if i was running a midengined setup IT would be a ford

opinion on ecotechs lots of new technology alot of delevopment going on definately has lots of potential higher cost factor

opinon on the bunny/rabbit/golf one of the most robust 4's around there are a ton out there for cheap and an extremely large after market parts source ran a couple others in near stock form plenty of fun

in closing why would we want to run something other than a vw aircooled mtr BECAUSE WE CAN and to Bugzlife yea you have to have an adapter plate to hook a watercooled bunny to an aircooled trans

dare to be different regards 2088bob

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:14 pm

If you do choose to do a conversion the 12A rotary is probalby the simplist. The parts are not as expensive as you think. Try $200 for apex seals
http://www.rotaryaviation.com/2_mm_apex_seals.htm
I bought everything else here:
http://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/customer/home.php
I bought my junkyard 12A for $300 and it blew after 2 days (I overheated it a couple times getting the cooling straightened out, DO NOT do this) but it was the best 2 days of driving ever. I could cruise at 100 no problem, the rotary is just getting into the powerband. I made an excel chart for tire size, rpm, and gearing; if I had the power or the lack of grey matter top speed is 140

Definitly keep your eyes on RX7club.com
If you are serious about building a reliable engine get a few cores and salvage the good parts. There are a few really good rebuild vids out there for rotarys too. Atkins and Rotary Aviation to name a couple suppliers.
Also check out http://www.rotaryresurrection.com
for cheap rebuilds if you are not keen on doing it yourself.

peterericb · Post by **peterericb** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 5:30 am

Anonymous wrote:scared of the rotary? WTF?

I dunno... running premix? High rate of falure? Lack of generic aftermarket?

I mean I can buy pistons at any spec I want for any engine, forged or otherwise.

I have had at least 10 Piston engines of various makes, models, and layouts open at one time or another... I have never even seen a rotary in person, and especially not taken apart.

I dunno... there have probably been 10 billion piston engines manufactured and maybe a few million rotaries... I don't doubt that it is a better idea for an engine, but it is just easier to go with something rediculiously tried and true...

that being said... the very first fitment problem I have which would require a hacked up body... I am gonna but a single turbo 13B and bite the bullet...

Also the problem with a 200 horsepower range turbo 12a is that my minimum goal is 250hp.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 9:09 pm

^^^you dont know a whole lot about rotaries and need to do some research. there are 12a's in the 1000hp range. 400 hp in a 12a is possible and daily driver reliable. the 13b turbo can get you into the 400 hp reliable for $1200. I don't know of many engines that can put out that power for that cheap and still be small and light.

the rotary has alot of patents on it. that may be a reason that not everyone is making them.

the rotary has a high rate of failure to people that abuse and don't know how to tune........period

whats wrong with premix??? I have used it on motorcycles for YEARS and so have ALOT of other people. also have you ever seen a 2 stroke engine pulled apart when using premix? they usually are cleaner than ones not using premix(aka 4 stroke motors). I could hook up my metering pump but I run synthetic and it does not burn off like the premix will.

generic aftermarket???? wtf?? you can keep that. I buy quality so I don't have to walk.

wait a sec you buy pistons? and then?? valves? and then?? retainers? valve guides?? and then?? rods?? springs?? cam(s)?? rings??rocker arms?? crankshaft?? thats about 100 moving parts right?? theres only about 7 for a rotary. and the smoothness can only be topped by the new corvette engine.

please educate yourself before you proceed.

if you still wanna run a 4 popper I think that rabbit engine would be good as well. alot of hop up potential and you can upgrade to the gti engine and maybe use the same adapter?? I might be wrong on that??

if you run a bus tranny, the diesel bellhousing off the vanagons(only made one year here in the us, but alot in south africa)will bolt to a bus tranny. the bell housings are interchangeable between the two. the african vanagon had the diesel rabbit engine as a option over ther. they might have had the regular gas engine as a option also, maybe?? I don't recall. the bellhousing is cheaper to buy than the entire tranny and can be bolted right to a bus tranny.

please let us know what you decide for sure. I looked for a engine that was on the list( kennedy or hecker machine) and found one cheap. then I ordered my adapter. try to find a good runner.

good luck again and pm me if you need help or have questions.

6t9

metropoj · Post by **metropoj** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:36 am

Anonymous wrote:^^^you dont know a whole lot about rotaries and need to do some research. there are 12a's in the 1000hp range. 400 hp in a 12a is possible and daily driver reliable. the 13b turbo can get you into the 400 hp reliable for $1200. I don't know of many engines that can put out that power for that cheap and still be small and light.

the rotary has alot of patents on it. that may be a reason that not everyone is making them.

the rotary has a high rate of failure to people that abuse and don't know how to tune........period

whats wrong with premix??? I have used it on motorcycles for YEARS and so have ALOT of other people. also have you ever seen a 2 stroke engine pulled apart when using premix? they usually are cleaner than ones not using premix(aka 4 stroke motors). I could hook up my metering pump but I run synthetic and it does not burn off like the premix will.

generic aftermarket???? wtf?? you can keep that. I buy quality so I don't have to walk.

wait a sec you buy pistons? and then?? valves? and then?? retainers? valve guides?? and then?? rods?? springs?? cam(s)?? rings??rocker arms?? crankshaft?? thats about 100 moving parts right?? theres only about 7 for a rotary. and the smoothness can only be topped by the new corvette engine.

please educate yourself before you proceed.

if you still wanna run a 4 popper I think that rabbit engine would be good as well. alot of hop up potential and you can upgrade to the gti engine and maybe use the same adapter?? I might be wrong on that??

if you run a bus tranny, the diesel bellhousing off the vanagons(only made one year here in the us, but alot in south africa)will bolt to a bus tranny. the bell housings are interchangeable between the two. the african vanagon had the diesel rabbit engine as a option over ther. they might have had the regular gas engine as a option also, maybe?? I don't recall. the bellhousing is cheaper to buy than the entire tranny and can be bolted right to a bus tranny.

please let us know what you decide for sure. I looked for a engine that was on the list( kennedy or hecker machine) and found one cheap. then I ordered my adapter. try to find a good runner.

good luck again and pm me if you need help or have questions.

6t9

Guest, enough with the slinging and guest log in. Log in and let's see your rotary, what you use it for, if it is cheap to get a part that does must and you're in some small town. I don't like rotaries either, personal preference, you're swearing in the posts is like someone just stole your ice cream cone ....

Why on God's NOT SO green earth would you want to premix fuel ? I guess we don't have enough pollution these days .... one of the reasons the rotaries stopped being avialable for a while .....

...

Bugzlife · Post by **Bugzlife** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:43 am

hands down the ford 4 cylinder carburated conversion is the cheapest, but I am building a type 1 , and will see how long it lives to see for myself.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:17 pm

metro post something useful, then I will answer your replies, and try the search button.