Lower prices on Type 4 cams and lifters!

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 3:14 pm

One of the benefits of the Store has been added volume going through the doors. we have finally started to see some big benefits of this since the beginning of 2006.

It appears that all our cams and lifters will be dropping in price sometime this month, I am doing the math at the present to see just how much they will be able to drop. The nice part of all this is that we have not had to sacrifice any quality to drop the prices, volume only has made this a possibility!

Our lifters are now being bought and processed in much larger quantities than ever before and this is the main reason why we are able to make the price adjustments for them.

My idea for the Type 4 Store has worked out perfectly- by making a central location for all TIV parts to be purchased without a question of compatibility or part quality we have been able to get volumes up and reduce prices.

The camshafts are more than likely the first product that will see sizable drops in price, the sloweritems to see drops in price will be connecting rods and rotating mass components like flywheels and etc.

*** Note- prices of complete RAT engines will be unaffected by these price differences, these are only applicable to individual parts sales through the Type 4 Store and engine KIT purchases, also through the Type 4 Store.

I'll calculate the prices and get the new price posted later this week.

Can Drive Soon · Post by **Can Drive Soon** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 3:39 pm

Yeah, love discounts on quality stuff.

66 deluxe · Post by **66 deluxe** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:05 am

Oh man, I just ordered a cam and lifters, but it has not been shipped, should of held out a bit longer, not to worry still the best type 4 parts available, take it easy, cheers Damien.

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:33 am

If I notice a trend of "waiters" the price drops will stop dead in their tracks!

Vielzidub 3 · Post by **Vielzidub 3** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:45 am

How much do you think they will be reduced by?

Also are you going to add a description to the cam listings so we don't have to hassel you to match the cam to the engine?

E.g. One posibility is a 103mmx71mm with 48x38heads. . .currently looking at 86c, but would seriously consider one of yours, especially if it would make this a little more streetable.

Another engine I may build for more dailly driving is a 1911, 76x66 with either 2L 914 heads, or more likely bus 2L heads with yet determined valves fitted. I would like a cam for this that would be fuel economy friendly, so definitly think it may be a candadate for one of you split duration specials, but which one?

Cheers,
Dan

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:57 am

Cams will ALWAYS be a custom order- Its against my religon to offer generic grinds with descriptions like "Perfect street cam"!

I will always have to know your engine specs and make a cam recommendation, the camhaft is way too important to the TIV to make it a generic choice.

I am working on a camshaft page on the new site that will help you choose a cam and also to submit a form for a cam recommendation. From that recommendation you could then choose the cam from the store that we recommend for you and purchase it.

This is also being done to keep from publically posting the proprietary specs of the cams we have had to work so hard to design over the years. Camshafts are everything to the TIV!

Vielzidub 3 · Post by **Vielzidub 3** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:43 am

The Cam-culator sound a great idea Jake!

However I was thinking, surely it would be unlikely for someone to copy your cam specs considering the price it cost them to custom grind, and the cost you are able to offer them at. Or if they really wanted to, they could 'obtain' one of a specific profile, and go from there to produce a cheap copy anyhow. WebCam don't hide there cam profiles in order to prevent folk copying there patterns, which I am sure are also well researched, and certainly well proven (although I do like the idea of having a larger choice of dual pattern cams to choose from! )

I do understand your 'problems' and concern of having done so much research/ investment to have someone take this from you, but equally shouldn't the consumer be permitted to know the figures to enable them to make an informed choice (alongside your worthy reccomendations for suitablility of course!)

I guess this could perhaps be disclosed in a trusted members only format if you really wanted to protect what (if they purchased a cam from you) they potentialy have access to already!?

Eitherway, I am sure your shadow wouldn't be able to undercut the quality and reasonably priced cams you produce. I mean, how many specialist cam manufactures are there in this game, aren't you already working with WebCam on this anyhow?

Just a though, and it's not to say I'd be put off buying one of your cams without 'knowing' what I was buying, but it does make me wonder!

Cheers,
Dan

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:57 am

However I was thinking, surely it would be unlikely for someone to copy your cam specs considering the price it cost them to custom grind,

Quite the contrary... It has been done by two different individuals, and thats the ones I know of.. Actually the BIG problem is with individuals seeing the cam specs and then going to their favorite discount cam supplier and picking something similar, just from the numbers alone. This has happened many times and in one instance **almost** got me in a lawsuite because a cam was installed as my cam and it was NOT mine! It was ground by some guy in his garage with an old cam grinder and the numbers were VERY funky.

but equally shouldn't the consumer be permitted to know the figures to enable them to make an informed choice

Most of my customers are not engine designers, or builders... So how could they make a choice thats best for their engine? Do they have the ability to model the engines and have the data from that camshaft and a similar engine to compare?? If they do they more than likely would not be buying from me at all, or even asking for advice.

The camshaft choice of a TIV engine impacts EVERYTHING about the engine and its much less forgiving than a Type 1 is for cam choice. If you goof up on a cam with a TI you might have crappy power and it'll be hard to tune, but if you goof on a TIV the whole engine feels the pain, especially the head temps (This is due to head design)

I can choose cams because I have thousands of dyno graphs from hundreds of combos with various CR and induction, designed for everything from aircraft to Autocross- this is how I choose cams, based on what we have plotted them at in the past with like arrangements.

Many times I have thought about discontinuing camshaft sales and only selling cams and lifters with engine kits as a fully engineered combination. This is because of the issues you speak of and my unwillingness to change my camshaft program in any respect. Cams take a TOn of time to design and attain data from, a good example is the Powerstroke combo that went through 14 camshafts before I found the optimum chioice.

My way of selling cams may not be the easiest (especially for me) and may not suit everyone, but there is no better way to attain the correct camshaft for a given combination. Period.
Performance and function are all that matter, what it takes to get to that point is only considered part of the process....

R2.0 · Post by **R2.0** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:39 am

If I can post from another perspective, I would much rather have an expert tell me what I should buy in order to achieve the results I want, for 2 reasons:

1) I've discovered that I'm not an expert at everything (Only took 37 years)
2) If it doesn't perform as promised, I know who to complain to.

In another post, I talk about using 1.7 jugs with a 2.0 stroke crank. How on earth would I choose a cam for that combo - probably only a handfull of people have done it. If I can go to Jake and say: "I have a relatively heavy Karmann Ghia and I like low end torque (habits from driving diesels), and my engine looks like this" I would expect him to be able to say "use Cam #xxxx" or "Sorry, can't get there from here."

R2.0

R2.0 · Post by **R2.0** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:44 am

damned double post...
R2.0

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:50 am

And while we have not "done it all" I can certainly say that we have done a ton of it and have paid close attention to ALL of it!

Thats the difference, logging the data and referring back to it later..

fl_buggy · Post by **fl_buggy** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:58 pm

Jake,

I understand you not wanting to post cam specs on a web site or in a catalog, but if someone purchases a cam from you, do they get a cam card with all of the specs on it?

I would really hate to buy a cam from you but be scared to mess with cam timing and/or when shopping for valvetrain parts tell the guy "call Jake, he'll tell you what springs I need".

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:38 pm

Yes, cam cards come with all camshaft purchases, they are a necessity.

I am adding valvetrain "kits" to the store that have the camshafts, lifters, pushrods, rockers adjusters and rocker studs as well as valve springs and retainers that we recommend for a bullet proof valvetrain.

More than likely many of the cams will only be available only in these kits, its unacceptable that individuals are purchasing my wilder cams and refusing not to also upgrade their valvetrain at the same time (its VERY dumb)

Its time that came to an end, before we encounter a failure and get blamed for someones willingness to cut corners.

fl_buggy · Post by **fl_buggy** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:23 pm

Kudo's for including a cam card! A very well known small block ford cam grinder will only say "install it straight up" if you ask for a cam card, tuning advice, etc.

Post by **Piledriver** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:36 pm

Jake, just checked for some HD rocker arm bits, you have the 8mm studs, but do you also carry the solid spacer and geometry shim kits yet?

I need:
Porsche adjusters x8
8mm HD rocker studs/nuts x8
Suitable inter-rocker shims so as to ditch the wiggle washers (have std 2.0 solid spacers)

The above would be a great "stage1" HD kit, even for stock motors.

Also will eventually need under-rocker mount shims to set geometry. (don't need this until I rebuild the 2.0, the above stuff is just for the "new" 1.8 with the Pilemotors old bottom end.)

I'd perfer a "one stop" shopping experience

I'm pretty sure you use all this stuff daily on motors you build...
If it's all in the store, I couldn't find it.