urethane torsion bushings/Grommet or HD rubber for IRS rear?

Ephry73 · Post by **Ephry73** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 5:59 pm

I have searched, found nothing of substance. I wanted to know if investing the time and money for Urethane bushings would be good for the rear of my car. I may get some heavier torsion bars, and replacing the rubber grommets would be a good thing. Question is, should I replace with stock rubber, or use the Urethane replacements, or mix both?

Also, is it worth it to add the urethane bushings to the control arms?

Thanks in advnce,

Ephry

gcorrado · Post by **gcorrado** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:40 pm

(1) good urethane bushings are great, and well worth it.
(2) most urethane bushings out there are complete crap.

stock rubber is okay for regular driving but doesn't hold up very well. the added rigidity of a urethane bushing THAT FIT is a big win for hard driving. so yes, i recommend urethane.

however, as i said, most urethane stinks. anything by bugpack or the like simply will not fit. if you're lucky they will be too big and you can laboriously carve them down to size. if you're unlucky they we be looser than... well i won't go there. (see my rant here).

i STONGLY recommend buying those made by energy suspension. i got mine through suspension.com. these will still require some modest whittling, but it's easy. use plenty of the goopy special urethane grease, and you'll be squeak-free.

Ephry73 · Post by **Ephry73** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 8:25 am

Thanks for the information. I will order the parts I need from them.

E

gcorrado · Post by **gcorrado** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:37 pm

for posterity, i should clarify that i'm not saying that ALL Bugpack urethane products are useless...

on the plus side, i've found that:
the urethane diagonal arm grommets i got from them were fine.
the prothane teflon grease they repackage is fine
the urethane sway bar bushings from them are fine

but out of three packages of Bugpack rear spring plate grommets, NONE of them came even close to being usable - and i've only heard complaints from other people as well. one fellow went so far as to go back to rubber because he was so frustrated with the Bugpack urethanes.

now that i know that Energy Suspension makes high quality urethane for aircooled VW applications, i'd probably go with them for everything. but given the greater availability of Bugpack urethane, i'm sure people will continue to use them (perhaps even with success) in many applications.

Ephry73 · Post by **Ephry73** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:23 am

Their prices are even as competitive as Bugpack as well. I need to either rebuild the front beam, or get a new one, and I am seriously thinking about urethane for the front as well.

I have to say though, Bugpack's rear swaybar kit for IRS is not bad. Bolted on in 25 minutes and everything fit.

E

racelook · Post by **racelook** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:08 am

Call or mail Toplineparts.

www.toplineparts.com

He has some good stuff.

Wiebrand

gcorrado · Post by **gcorrado** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:43 am

Ephry73 wrote:I need to either rebuild the front beam, or get a new one, and I am seriously thinking about urethane for the front as well.

it didn't take long with me playing with the Bugpack urethane for the front beam to forget the whole idea. maybe Energy would be better, but I'm pretty happy with the bearings in POL used beams. (just changed mine acutally, the original had rusted through.)

Ephry73 wrote:I have to say though, Bugpack's rear swaybar kit for IRS is not bad.

agreed. i'm running one too.

Ephry73 · Post by **Ephry73** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:15 am

My beam needs more than just the bearings. The tower braces are showing holes. I know if I start driving her hard, she will get lose quick. A lowered beam is not that expensive and comes with the bearings already installed. may be a good addition. If I was to repair the beam, then I will go with the POly bushings for a tighter feel.

E

2088bob · Post by **2088bob** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:33 am

what about the stuff from swayaway have always had good luck with that stuff

Ephry73 · Post by **Ephry73** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 5:22 pm

Yeah, I will go with the whole package, mostly to save on shipping and no way to missmatch parts. if they do, well, I can return at no extra cost.

E

Bruce2 · Post by **Bruce2** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:50 am

I've installed EMPI, Bugpack, and SAW torsion bar grommets and they were all too big. They had to be custom fitted to the car. Once that was done they fit perfectly.
I noticed the hardness was quite different between the brands. Unfortunately, I can't remember which ones were like a rock and which were almost soft like rubber.

Kafer_Mike · Post by **Kafer_Mike** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:25 am

All the SAW's I have purchased are the hard urethane...

Post by **2088 bob** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:09 am

i have to strongly agree with what gcorrado said about poly bushing in front ends junk ! if you need to go thru your front end just make sure every thing is clean and not all wore out retain your out board roller bearings at all cost i don't even like to use the poly end seals i prefer stock ones ihave on ocassion gone into the inner phenolic bushing with a brake hone to dress it up a little so that i get a really smooth action on my trailing arms am also currently using a silicone based grease for my front ends seems to be working really well but then i only put about 3000kms on my car in a season the other thing that needs to to be taken in to account is the condition of the bearing surfaces on the trailing arms themselves obviously these need to be in good condition

my current front end has a solid spear in the top tube like formula vee cars and two height adjusters in the bottom tube my torsion leaf clusters are split so i can do a lttle weight jacking when i have the car on the scales
i know we were talking about bushings for the rear did't mean to hijack the thread i have had really good luck with sway-away branded stuff and i use them at the trailing arm pivots as well as the outboard spring plate ends and apply liberal amounts the the about mentioned silicone grease to cut down on the squeaks
regards 2088bob

Ephry73 · Post by **Ephry73** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:36 pm

Not Hijacking at all Bob. GOod info. I will just get a refurbished, front beam with adjusters for the Ghia, and rear urethane bushes.

This will take care of the squatting I have in the back of the Ghia now.

E

Post by **2088 bob** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:09 am

Ephry 73 when you are shopping around for a new lowered front end try and make sure it is supplied with what are refered to as lowered or long travel ball joints my suggestion is to acquire the parts and assemble your own front end that way you can massage all the pieces a bit its not that tough to do the reason i bring up the long travel balljionts many years of experience trial and error with the the formula vee cars has taught us that you need a front end that is somewhat compliant iam not talking sloppy loose but smooth and nonbinding i have on ocassion had lowered bugs owners here complaining of locking up front wheels after checking every thing out and making sure brake bias and setup was good we would still encounter what i refer to as premature lockup what we disovered was happening on the lowered cars with stock bj is the that the front ends were locking up or binding because the travel of the stock balljoints under lowered suspension conditions did not allow the suspension travel required effectively negating forward weight transfer which is critical to maximum brake performance this becomes even more evident when dealing with with cars like formula vees and sandrails that have less front end weight

remember you have to able to smoothly tranfer weight forward on to the braking wheels to help to plant those wheels to affect maximum brake performance this becomes a fine balance between suspension travel and suspension setup remember i am talking about braking performance out at or near the limits adhesion

anyway just my 2 cents worth