The consensus on narrowed vs stock width front beams

[K-swiss]

Hey guys,
I'm building up a "Resto-Custom" beetle. I'm used to having my cars handle pretty well. So on this one I would like to run Aircooled.net adjustable swaybars and the widest tires I can on possibly 6inch and 6.5inch rims out back. Whats the consensus on stock vs a narrowed beam? Do Adjustable swaybars work on slightly narrowed beams? How much tire can I cram into a tire well being slightly lowered?

[Ozzie]

Main Entry: con·sen·sus
Pronunciation: k&n-'sen(t)-s&s
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: Latin, from consentire
1 a : general agreement : UNANIMITY <the consensus of their opinion, based on reports...from the border -- John Hersey> b : the judgment arrived at by most of those concerned <the consensus was to go ahead>
2 : group solidarity in sentiment and belief

Preface: OK, the word consensus in no way implies statement of fact, but rather opinion or belief. Hopefully our collective opinions or beliefs are based on some sort of well founded knowledge or experience. I have neither. Only the ponderings of a madman on this perticular subject. I have completely replaced my front & rear suspensions and they include the WHITELINE adjustable anti-sway bars that are available from John @ AirCooled and I believe these are the bars you are referring to. I also put in an adjustable front beam, Puma, that is stock width & I am using the standard knuckles. Not dropped spindles. That being said...

Chapter One: A 2" narrower beam moves the front trailing arms inboard 1" on each side. In my experience of installing & adjusting my sway bar, I firmly believe that the bar will mount up & work with a 2" narrower beam. In the very worst case, you will have to put the bar in a press & put more bend in the elbow that turns the bar to the rear. This is easily done. Go for it.

Chapter Two: The wheels you choose are inportant in the sense that offset is important. You are working on a Beetle, not a Ghia so you have much more room & forgiveness than what I work with. I guess you are looking to run 205's up front & maybe 225's out back. Perhapse you should check on Fuchs Deep 6's. They have less offset & are less likely to rub the trailing arms than the shallow dish Fuchs. All is contingent on how low you go as the lower you go, the more the fender comes into play.

Chapter Three: If you choose to go with dropped spindles, you gain less altitude if desired. You also gain back 1/2" of the 1" you lost on the narrow beam. You actually move the wheel 1/2" farther away from the trailing arms & that's a good thing for clearance from them. Bad for clearance to the fenders. The difference is slight, but your steering geometry changes & it will take more effort to turn at slower speeds. Slight, but more. Again, offset of the wheel needs to be considered to correctly locate the tire between the trailing arms & the fender lip. With dropped spindles, you are less likely to need the Deep 6's.

Chapter Four: Narrower beams leads to a narrower track. Narrower track leads to less stability. If you want handeling to be the "End All", stay with a stock width adjustable beam & dropped spindles. Go with wider fenders if you need, and probably will. Get that baby low & wide and always remember that the Isralites built the pyramids with the big side down. They haven't fallen over yet.

Epilogue: Sorry for taking so long. I've been thinking about all this & this is what I've come up with. Feel free to tear it apart. Even madmen can handle a good rebut.

Oz

[Teeroy]

I have a link pin Whiteline adjustable sway bar on my 61 , drop spindles , stock width adjustable beam . I am changing to a CB 2" narrowed beam (for tire clearance) , the current sway bar will not fit as is . I will shorten mine an inch each side , and then it will fit (no extra bends needed) .

Take a look at Air Cooled Net's site , John offers the Whiteline bars for narrowed beams also .TROY

[Bruce2]

..... Perhapse you should check on Fuchs Deep 6's. They have less offset & are less likely to rub the trailing arms than the shallow dish Fuchs.

The offset of early deep 6 Fuchs is exactly the same as the later flat face 6s. Both 36mm.

The interference of Fuchs and the suspension only occurs with dropped spindles and BJ front suspensions. Kirin is K&L.

I had a road racing friend tell me that a narrowed beam will make the car handle worse since it narrows the track. I say no, not if you make the tire contact patch wider such that the outside contact points are wider than stock. That is what I have on my car.

[Ozzie]

..... Perhapse you should check on Fuchs Deep 6's. They have less offset & are less likely to rub the trailing arms than the shallow dish Fuchs.

The offset of early deep 6 Fuchs is exactly the same as the later flat face 6s. Both 36mm.

Thanks B. Live & learn.
I thought deep dish wheels were offset to move the rim outward.
Obviously, something different is going on.

[Bruce2]

The difference appears in 2 places. The depth of the lip on the outer face, and the position of the drop center. The photoshoping job in that pic is done wrong, it does not show that the drop center of the late wheel is closer to the front face than the drop center of the early wheel. The reason they changed from one to the other was because it was too difficult to mount tires from the front face due to the large distance to the drop center. If you have early deep 6 Fuchs today, mount the tires from the backside. There's less stress on both the wheel and tire this way.

[Ozzie]

That explains it clearly. Thank You Sir.

[vujade]

The difference appears in 2 places. The depth of the lip on the outer face, and the position of the drop center. The photoshoping job in that pic is done wrong, it does not show that the drop center of the late wheel is closer to the front face than the drop center of the early wheel. The reason they changed from one to the other was because it was too difficult to mount tires from the front face due to the large distance to the drop center. If you have early deep 6 Fuchs today, mount the tires from the backside. There's less stress on both the wheel and tire this way.

Bruce, I thought the main reason for the redesign on the 6" fuchs was
to clear larger brake calipers?