Starter/Ign Switch Problem..Can someone help? (66 T1 Bug)

Post by **Daniel G** » Sat May 12, 2007 4:57 pm

I have a '66 beetle that hasn't been run since 1983, and my starter will not work. I have searched all over for info on the problem, but I haven't had any luck with it. I have cleaned every connection between the starter and the switch, replaced the ignition switch, and it still won't work. I bridged the terminals on the starter and it works like that, but the switch does nothing, not even make it click. All the fuses are good as well. All the other electrical wired through the ignition switch works, except for the wipers, so I know that isn't the problem. Can anyone tell me what is wrong? Is something in my starter bad?

Also, it is still 6v (with a brand new battery)...

Thanks in advance for any help...

Daniel

Post by **Marc** » Sat May 12, 2007 5:21 pm

On a `66 there's one continuous red wire from Terminal #50 of the ignition switch to Term 50 on the solenoid (no inline connector in the trunk or under the back seat as found on `68-up cars). If you can get the starter to work by bridging solenoid Term 50 to the battery + cable, you should also be able to do so by jumping Terms 30 & 50 at the ignition switch (or with the key if the switch is OK). If not there may be too much resistance in the wiring to the ignition switch, preventing enough voltage from reaching the solenoid. Power gets from the battery to the ignition switch via the dual connection at the voltage regulator B+ terminal, then through a double Term 30 on the headlamp switch, then through a double terminal on the fusebox. High resistance at any of those connections or the wiring between them could be the culprit. And don't forget the "return" side of the circuit via the ground strap around the front trans mount and the negative battery cable connection to the chassis...high resistance there can inhibit normal solenoid operation too.
Note that early bugs ran the power to the ignition switch first, then to the light switch - presumably it was changed in an effort to make the headlamps brighter. If reliable starting is more important to you than bright lights, you can reroute the wiring that way. Better yet, run a whole new 10GA wire from the battery directly to Term 30 on the ignition switch, or add a "booster relay" to the solenoid circuit so the wiring to & from the front of the car doesn't need to handle the full solenoid draw anymore.

MNAirHead · Post by **MNAirHead** » Mon May 14, 2007 5:29 am

Including "66 T1" in the title for searchability.

Please keep us posted Daniel..

Post by **Daniel G** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:56 pm

Thanks for all the help guys. Through the process of elimination I have it narrowed down to the wiring, which must have a bad connection or resistance in it somewhere. So I am going to install a Ghia horn relay at the starter and hopefully that will take care of it. Now I guess the fun part will be finding a 6v relay...

Daniel

MNAirHead · Post by **MNAirHead** » Tue May 15, 2007 8:03 am

I have an old Gene Berg starter relay.. they may have some.

Anyone know of systems that use 6v still?

I'd say Old tractors.. not sure if they just run #00 wire instead of relays.

MNAirHead · Post by **MNAirHead** » Tue May 15, 2007 8:03 am

Hot rods?

Post by **Marc** » Tue May 15, 2007 9:16 am

If you can't find a Bosch/Hella/SWF relay you could use a 6V Ford starter solenoid - Echlin P/N ST58.
A smaller relay won't require as much current to operate so it's a better choice IMO, but plenty of folks have used the Ford solenoid successfully.

http://store.classicgarage.com/hella6vrelay.html

Post by **Daniel G** » Tue May 15, 2007 1:54 pm

Thanks...I tried the local VW parts store, and he doesn't have the ghia relay, so I may need to order it online somewhere, or just go with the ford solenoid. Does anyone know if there is a generic 6v relay that will work in place of the ghia relay? I know they make a 12v relay for fog lights, etc, but I don't know if it is possible to find a 6v one or not.

On a side note, I ran a wire from the starter solenoid to the engine compartment so I can run the starter by touching the wire to the voltage regulator. Anyway, all I did was sand the corrosion off the points and poured some gas down the carb, and it runs! I was surprised it ran because I figured the coil and some of the ignition parts would have gone bad from sitting so long...

Although, I guess it is possible, since I Hurley was able to push start the bus he found in the jungle on LOST, and it ran fine...

Daniel

MNAirHead · Post by **MNAirHead** » Wed May 16, 2007 3:08 am

Marc wrote:If you can't find a Bosch/Hella/SWF relay you could use a 6V Ford starter solenoid - Echlin P/N ST58.
A smaller relay won't require as much current to operate so it's a better choice IMO, but plenty of folks have used the Ford solenoid successfully.

http://store.classicgarage.com/hella6vrelay.html

Clarification question.. is this the same 6v ford starter relay some folks call the "hard start kit." I think I have an Old Stock Gene Berg one.. it's big.

Post by **Marc** » Wed May 16, 2007 9:01 am

Probably identical, certainly comparable.