hazard light problems
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Rob B
- Posts: 521
- Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:01 am
Yeah, I can see what you mean, though it wasn't meant to be a secret, I just didn't know it would be relevant. 
I just suddenly got a feeling about them....according to the retailer, they are supposed to be a direct replacement bulb. As I said before, they are a regular fit but are a small cluster of LED's instead of the filament bit. They apparently have the same resistivity as a regular bulb built into the base. I dunno.....???
I just suddenly got a feeling about them....according to the retailer, they are supposed to be a direct replacement bulb. As I said before, they are a regular fit but are a small cluster of LED's instead of the filament bit. They apparently have the same resistivity as a regular bulb built into the base. I dunno.....???
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ashman40
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:24 am
I been reading your posts and had an idea....
Using your multimeter...
- remove the flasher relay and the dash turn indicator bulb
- turn your ignition on but leave the turn signal lever in the middle (neutral) position
- test the 49a connection of the fuse block where the flasher relay plugs in for (+) voltage
You should normally NOT find voltage here since the circuit gets it's power from the flasher side of the circuit, but in your case I think you may find some voltage at the 49a connection. Coming from... I don't know where.
This seemed to fit your condition. With the ignition off and the flasher switch on, all power comes from fuse #8 thru the flasher and onto all four corner lights.... so they work.
With the ignition on, it sounds like something is adding 12v+ to the lighting circuit and reducing the actual current flowing thru the flasher to the bulbs, which is why they go dim. Without enough current the flasher won't heat up and will not flash.
When you turn off the flasher, you are actually switching to a different circuit, power now comes from fuse #11, thru the flasher relay, on to the turn signal level and then the four corner bulbs.
I believe that even with the dash indicator removed, the turn signals should still work (can someone confirm?). Your do not. This is another indicator that there is 12v+ flowing from somewhere else into the bulb side of the circuit. This reduces the potential and reduces the current flowing thru the circuit. Not enough current and the flasher will not flash.
Check all you ground connections to make sure they are clean.
Check that you do not have a double filament bulb installed where it doesn't belong. This can sometimes divert 12v+ into the negative side of the bulb.
Check that with the ignition on, flasher off and turn signal off the L and R terminals of the emergency flasher switch should NOT have 12v+. the same should apply if you test the gr/blk and wh/blk wires from the turn signal. If you apply 12v+ to these connectors you should see the corner lights light up brightly.
When you turn the turn signal on, you should see 12v+ from these same connections. I'm guessing you will see less than 12v.
Report back what you find.
Using your multimeter...
- remove the flasher relay and the dash turn indicator bulb
- turn your ignition on but leave the turn signal lever in the middle (neutral) position
- test the 49a connection of the fuse block where the flasher relay plugs in for (+) voltage
You should normally NOT find voltage here since the circuit gets it's power from the flasher side of the circuit, but in your case I think you may find some voltage at the 49a connection. Coming from... I don't know where.
This seemed to fit your condition. With the ignition off and the flasher switch on, all power comes from fuse #8 thru the flasher and onto all four corner lights.... so they work.
With the ignition on, it sounds like something is adding 12v+ to the lighting circuit and reducing the actual current flowing thru the flasher to the bulbs, which is why they go dim. Without enough current the flasher won't heat up and will not flash.
When you turn off the flasher, you are actually switching to a different circuit, power now comes from fuse #11, thru the flasher relay, on to the turn signal level and then the four corner bulbs.
I believe that even with the dash indicator removed, the turn signals should still work (can someone confirm?). Your do not. This is another indicator that there is 12v+ flowing from somewhere else into the bulb side of the circuit. This reduces the potential and reduces the current flowing thru the circuit. Not enough current and the flasher will not flash.
Check all you ground connections to make sure they are clean.
Check that you do not have a double filament bulb installed where it doesn't belong. This can sometimes divert 12v+ into the negative side of the bulb.
Check that with the ignition on, flasher off and turn signal off the L and R terminals of the emergency flasher switch should NOT have 12v+. the same should apply if you test the gr/blk and wh/blk wires from the turn signal. If you apply 12v+ to these connectors you should see the corner lights light up brightly.
When you turn the turn signal on, you should see 12v+ from these same connections. I'm guessing you will see less than 12v.
Report back what you find.
AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 (project that never made it to the road - SOLD)
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD) (RIP due to frame rot)
'67 Beetle #2 Project (2019 project car)
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 (project that never made it to the road - SOLD)
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD) (RIP due to frame rot)
'67 Beetle #2 Project (2019 project car)
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Speedy Jim
- Posts: 2290
- Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:01 am
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Rob B
- Posts: 521
- Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:01 am
Oh hell...I just swapped the bulbs back and guess what...everything worked just fine!!!
Sorry to all that have helped with this one
, and I'm straight back to the supplier for an explanation as I was assured they would work the same since they have a the same resistive properties as a regular bulb built into the base of the bayonet. RUBBISH !
So, with this in mind, and assuming I don't get a refund for these fairly expensive bulbs, does anyone have any idea of how to make these things work? They do look most excellent and it would be a shame not to use them. Having said that, I don't want to have to wire up another circuit just for the indicators...
Sorry to all that have helped with this one
, and I'm straight back to the supplier for an explanation as I was assured they would work the same since they have a the same resistive properties as a regular bulb built into the base of the bayonet. RUBBISH !So, with this in mind, and assuming I don't get a refund for these fairly expensive bulbs, does anyone have any idea of how to make these things work? They do look most excellent and it would be a shame not to use them. Having said that, I don't want to have to wire up another circuit just for the indicators...
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Rob B
- Posts: 521
- Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:01 am
Well, just in case anyone needs to know about this relay, it does not work with the standard electrical system of a VW Bus/Bug, etc. I got one and the hazards flash at a more regular rate just fine, but the indicators still do not work.Rob B wrote:Look what I've found .... !!!
retailed in the UK by Ultraleds.co.uk
I think I'll get one
ULTRLEDS have been BRILLIANT and are happy to replace the relay with resistors which will work.
So sorted in the end, but I thought I'd share what I've found.
Cheers all,
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ashman40
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:24 am
So you replaced the single relay w/ resistors? How many did you need? One resistor per bulb? or can you get away w/ one per side (L/R)?Rob B wrote:ULTRLEDS have been BRILLIANT and are happy to replace the relay with resistors which will work.
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 (project that never made it to the road - SOLD)
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD) (RIP due to frame rot)
'67 Beetle #2 Project (2019 project car)
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 (project that never made it to the road - SOLD)
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD) (RIP due to frame rot)
'67 Beetle #2 Project (2019 project car)
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Rob B
- Posts: 521
- Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:01 am
erm...I've not sent back the relay yet! I got side tracked on other stuff such as wheels! Not so straight forward to get 185mm wide tyres on empi 5's to fit under the rear wheel arches of a lowered bus. I had to deflate them and squash them to get em to fit...
Anyhow, that's another story! I will give the company a ring and order the resistors (however many that may be!) and try them with a stock relay. If all is ok, I'll send back the LED relay as suggested.
I'll post back what I find and how many resistors are needed.
Cheers,
Anyhow, that's another story! I will give the company a ring and order the resistors (however many that may be!) and try them with a stock relay. If all is ok, I'll send back the LED relay as suggested.
I'll post back what I find and how many resistors are needed.
Cheers,
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MattKab
- Posts: 790
- Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2002 12:01 am
Rob, the flashrate of the indicators is determined by the wattage of the bulbs, it's a safety thing so you know when one has stopped working - the flashrate nearly doubles.
When you hitch a trailer and connect up the tailboard lights, your indicators flashrate will be ~50% slower, or slower than the required 1 - 2 flashes per second, that's when you need to swap to an electronic relay.
Matt
When you hitch a trailer and connect up the tailboard lights, your indicators flashrate will be ~50% slower, or slower than the required 1 - 2 flashes per second, that's when you need to swap to an electronic relay.
Matt
1979 Karmann Beetle with 1.8ti T4 (still pastel yellow)
1970 411 Variant (black) daily driver
1964 lil' window Beetle (soon to be black)
1970 411 Variant (black) daily driver
1964 lil' window Beetle (soon to be black)