upright turbo build

[tonyorlo]

Bringing this back from the dead. This project was on pause but now I want to get it going again. There is a ton of helpful info on here for me.

I want to get your guys opinions on this,

https://www.csp-shop.com/en/engine/pist ... 6540a.html

Is this a legit forged piston kit? I’ve read about csp and they seem to sell high end parts. If so I want to jump on a set of them.

[Clatter]

HHhhmmm, Interesting..

A lot of times you can't tell from the stock pics on the website,
But the pics they show are a set of Mahle Brazil flat-tops like we used to be able to get AFAICT, FWIW.

The 22mm pin option is also intrigueing.
Maybe they are buying T1 94 pistons and selling them with the T4 cylinders?

How they put these together is something to ask them.
If they indeed are sitting on stock of old Cima 94 flat-top 914 P&L sets, I'd go for it.
(Even at that price )
In that case, they are 'forged' as the debate rages on of 'forged' Cimas are forged or not..
Not a metallurgist here, so I'll defer.

Because the rest of the world is stuck with AAs just missing the AA label,
And being sold as 'Mahle',
It would be good to get a set of real Brazil Mahles while you still can.

Just hope you don't pay that much and end up with a set of AAs.
Stuff'll drive you to drinking..

[tonyorlo]

I emailed to verify they are for the 1.8. I know it stated for a 66mm stroke but the description is misleading. He did verify they are for a 1.8. I didn’t ask about the make up of the parts, or if they are real forged pistons. I figured he’s going to say they are either way. I’d hate to buy them and pay to ship them back to Germany or where ever they come from.

If they are legit, that price is great and really saves me a ton of headache on mixing parts.

I was dead set on just building a mail order T1 from a kit, but I always talk myself out of it after thinking about it. Like you said that picture can be of anything. Before I pull the trigger I will ask more questions.

[Piledriver]

For that price you can order custom 4032 alloy forged pistons, with whatever ring pack you desire...

4032 alloy is fairly high silicon %, needs ~same clearance as stock, perhaps +.001"

[tonyorlo]

Pile,
My memory was refreshed after reAding through this entire thread again years later. I forgot you recommended I ask for that alloy in the pistons. I would much rather go with wiescos, but what should I do about the barrels? I really don’t want to go used, and I can’t afford nickies. If I would be safe buying some stock replacement cylinders and having them punched out that would be great.

I’m even thinking about trying the subie pistons, or the piston guided rods.

The plans for this car changed slightly, it will be my daily driver for fair weather conditions. So it will see 14 miles daily. I don’t need big power, but I want to go with the turbo still.

[Piledriver]

Wiseco will make you 4032 alloy pistons... So will JE, or Ross, or Diamond et al.

A set of 93mm subaru pistons (1mm OS) would work and give you a super thick cylinder wall...
The off the shelf pin heights would all require different crank or rods or both.
You could probably get the jugs turned down for 1.7 heads... for the best sealing.

You could make it a 2l or 2.2l the hard way, it might be the sturdiest way to boost a t4 motor.

[tonyorlo]

Thinking out loud online...

I’m researching every possible route again and I have a few questions.

The piston guided rod idea seems to be a very good option because it opens a lot of doors. I have found a few readily available rods with very close specs. One is for a ford small block. It’s specs are,

5.4” - 137.16mm length
2.123” - 53.92mm big end dia
.830” - 21mm big end width
.927” - 23.5mm pin dia

Can the big end diameter of the rods be increased? Can the small end diameter of the rod be increased also?
It is very close to working on a 1.8 crank and 2.0 pistons. It’s also very close to the Subaru piston pin dia as well.

After typing this and thinking it would be much easier and probably cost less in the long run to buy a rebuilt 2.0 crank, aftermarket rods and some 94mm forged mahles for a 2.0 and have MUCH less headache.

[tonyorlo]

Another thought, using those rods, with 94mm type 1 pistons and a 1.8 crank. I wonder if a machine shop would be able to increase the piston pin size 1.5mm in the piston, or possibly just shim it in the rod?

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Thinking out loud online...

Can the big end diameter of the rods be increased? Can the small end diameter of the rod be increased also?
It is very close to working on a 1.8 crank and 2.0 pistons. It’s also very close to the Subaru piston pin dia as well.

Intersting question. My answer would be that a machinist could ream/fit them but that is assuming there is enough "meat" at the end of the rod to handle the loads the piston via. the wrist pin would put on them in a "worst case scenerio". What a fully built SBF would put on them I doubt that a full load ACVW would match but then what do I know about this (something to think about).

If you are going "after market rod" then I could contact the Mfgr. and talk to them about you plans. If you are talking to a stock Ford then I would talk to a specialist/Ford about your plans. Good question.

Lee

[tonyorlo]

Piston guided rods have been proven in many forms of racing and by herds of Volvos for decades.

A 66 crank, std T1 rods and Mahle Bs just about bolts together with a ~stock deck height for a T4.

The 2L journal is only 50mm. Not a big fan, but it allowed the 2L to use the same crank forging as the 1.7/1.8.

This seems like a great way to go. I can get Mahle forged pistons and Weisco in 94mm.

Rods are readily avalible in 5.325 (135.255mm). That would put me at 203.255mm.

My two problems.

1 Can I get shims in the correct 22mm diameter? I’m sure I can but how hard will they be to get? Also who will provide the the side to side clearence for me. Would I use the big end spec?

2 Oiling, will any manufacture ok this idea of going with a piston guided rod?

Say I go with 94mm pistons, what are my cylinder options? Can I buy the off the shelf 94mm cylinder, or do I need to buy smaller bore cylinders and have them punched out?

[tonyorlo]

Edit double post

[tonyorlo]

https://www.go-parts.com/wiseco/wiseco- ... 87235.aspx

Those pistons are

96mm Bore
46.38mm Comp height
24mm Pin dia

The cylinders would need to be shimmed around 4mm if that’s ok. These would allow stock 1.8 rods and crank. They are also specd for piston guided rods. Their price is close to JE price though.

[Piledriver]

With a 13cc dish I hope you plan to boost the hell out of it...
A flat top would work ok.

If you are not going to boost it, the kb hypereutetics are a fine choice.

[tonyorlo]

It will be turboed so forged is a must.

I think a piston guided rod setup with the type 1 94mm piston and rod with the 66mm crank is the way I want to go. I contacted the rod manufacture and the piston manufacture both asking about their opinion or recommendation on going that route.

[tonyorlo]

The tech at scat does not recommend going this route because oil pressure will be an issue. Which is a valid point, but how do manufactures like Volvo combat that problem?

I talked to weisco and changing the pin height and diameter on their 94mm type 1 piston won’t be a problem. For $5 extra a pop that’s not a bad deal.