Ol'fogasaurus black buggy

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Been very frustrated with my build lately (so what else it new). I decided not to use a roller pedal this time as it was getting to be too much work as I would have had to cut the tunnel to make room for the “Y” shaped piece that bolts onto the roller pedal for the cable to attach to. Instead I got a very nice conventional style of pedal that, with a slight modification, fits and works. There is one problem, there are too many stiffening sections in that area. I though I would just cover them over but the bolts that I would have to use would fit in these areas so, whack the section out and go on from there.

I bought a through pivot bolt for the pedal assembly I had that allows me to delete the roller throttle assembly. I then reinstalled the pedal assembly and laid the new pedal in place to figure out where it would go. On the side of the pedal is a cast in bracket that has three threaded holes in it for the throttle cable, With some modification to the bracket I figured that I had to remove the lowest of the holes by trimming the lower part of the bracket up. The bracket fit in place (I will want to cant it a bit but that should be easy) and at full throttle, the bracket stays just inside of the recessed area of the tunnel.

When I cut out the area of the pan to put a new floor piece in that portion of the pan came loose next to the tunnel, I mean the spot welds pulled loose. Out of about 15 rosette welds, only half of them had remained stuck. After the original welding of the pan halves in place, I had turned the pan over and took the end of the handle of a hammer and banged the seams to see it things were OK and they were; now they are not. I found another area on the other pan half where the same thing has happened.

When I started this build I mentioned that we had had a hard time making welds about an inch to an inch and a half up the tunnel and on the join flange of the two parts of the pan. When I originally got this pan, there were at least two layers of carpet glued down and what ever glue was used it has to have gotten into the metal and is creating a problem (a weird smell sometimes when I weld in those areas). I had a professional welder working with me at first and he got frustrated and quit. I then learned how to weld (well kind of) and I got really frustrated. The general consensus is now to get a new pan and start over. Naw, this is the last chance with this one tough.

I spent most of the morning cutting out the old floor and carving and fitting a new piece of flooring. On three sides I think there is good enough metal to weld to as long as I watch my heat (my welder runs hot) but in a couple spots it will require a butt weld and that is where I have been having problems… blow though. I am going to weld a doubler to the under side of the new, thicker piece and then drill through both the pan and the doubler to plug weld. I plan on welding from the back side putting my copper heat sink on the thin side to keep it from over heating. If this doesn’t work, well… I do have and know how to use a cutting torch and I am not afraid to use it and the build will be finished at least for me. I just don’t like giving up on something especially when it has been a 17 or 18 year build. Wifie-poo is tired of it too.

Lee

[winifredevw]

Lee, don't give up on your welding skills just yet. I am by no means a welder, but "plug welds" or "rosettes" can be tricky, the slag fills the very hole your trying to weld, giving the illusion of a good weld. I think a good lap-joint is better and easier than a butt-joint, but again, I don't weld for a living.

[kyle_pc_75]

My pans went the same way at first. I found it helped to make sure the pans were lying absolutely flat on the tunnel lip, at least of the point of the weld. It's definitely tricky.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Thanks Kyle, I have had other tough builds before but nothing to compare with this. One good thing though, I have learned a lot... if that is the bright side of it. This definitely is one build that you can push, it is a slow, check your work before you even take that next baby step kind of build.

I just went out to check on things and found a small area that was going to be a problem. I already had dolly'd it flat once but something must have hooked it as it had a lip (more like a pout about a quarter of inch or less) on it just like before. Luckily I have the rotisserie and can rotate the pan to be able to hammer/dolly the lip back into place. I also finally found my long reach vice grip but I think I will have to buy another one or two for another area. I did make a longer reach one which I think I leant out years ago and that is something I may have to do again also.

Lee

[Big Dave]

You can take a piece of copper tube, smash it flat and hold it on the back side of your butt joint so you wont blow through. The steel wont stick to the copper and the copper adds to the thermal mass and helps control the heat.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Thanks for the suggestion Dave, a friend in Oregon gave me a piece of 1.4 X 1 3/8 X 4 copper flat stock to use as a heat sink (I still need to put a handle on it as it get hot pretty quickly even with welding gloves on) a couple of years ago when I started putting the second set of pan halves on. Even with sanding and polishing both sides of the pan half edges and the mounting lips on the tunnel with a 90* die grinder using both a sanding disc and a Scotch Brite disc to make sure that it was free of paint. To get rid of any potential grease/grime I washed the adjoining/mating surfaces in lacquer thinner or acetone then blew them dry with compressed air prior to final fitting then having the heat sink pushed/clamped as hard a possible against the joint, metal was disappearing! I even made my own clamp (heavy and awkward) that would go from the outer parameter of the pan to the tunnel to clamp things down securely besides the sheet metal screws every 2 inches (there were ~98 holes per side and the s/m screws were in every other hole) I even tried a length of AL flat stock as a heat sink also. Ya gotta know that is ego deflating when things fail like that.

Anyway, we will see how things go now that I have threatened it's life.

Lee

[Steve Arndt]

I also talked to him about the amount of catalyst we were using and he agreed with what we are doing vs. the weather conditions was right. I told him I was worried about too much heat buildup by using more catalyst and he said it would take a lot more catalyst than we were using to get that much heat going.

Lee

You are way beyond my skills, but I have something to say anyway.
When it is cold, I crank up the catalyst. There is nothing worse than coming back the next morning and finding a sticky mess of uncured resin. I would rather waste half a batch from mixing it too hot, rather than slather it on and have to remove all of it from not fully curing. By the way, does anyone have a trick for removing a batch of resin/cloth after mixing without enough catalyst when left with a cold wet sticky mess?
Steve

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Steve, you made my day with the F/G mess. I can’t top that; thanks, you made me feel better.

I called my friend (who now is in AZ) who has been helping me and here are his suggestions.

What you probably want is to shine a source of infrared or ultraviolet light such as using a sunlamp or a heat gun on it to set the resin. That was his first suggestion.

Put another covering over it which is over catalyzed. He is not sure if it will work or it may take a long time. The mess probably, overtime, set up but not as quickly as you probably want but given time it should set up.

Get a pair of old pliers and gloves and start to pull it off. Messy, nasty but it could be your best bet.

We haven’t had enough good weather here to continue on with my fiber glassing project outside. The wife won’t let me mix and apply in the attached garage. Resin cooking fumes after a session outside get the continuous comments for the rest of the day and maybe for a couple of days after.

Lee

[Steve Arndt]

I have covered an old sticky layer with a finish "glaze" to fix a screw up. It works, but is a no no for strength.

If it is un-catalyzed enough even heat won't fix it. Lacquer thinner and rags is the only way I have removed an old layer that won't cure.

My problem is when I go from my usual spot fix mix of half a bear can of resin, and say 30 drops of catalyst, to a big batch. I tend to under-catalyze the larger batch. So I work in smaller sections to prevent big screw ups.

[Steve Arndt]

And I am knocking on 3000 posts so I thought I would just mention that.

I have also found that body shop catalyst is more reliable than the homedepot crap.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

He was very clear that it was not the heat; it was the infrared or ultraviolet light that you are after. It rings true to me now that I think about it (see below)

I agree with the Lowes or Home Despot is not the best of sources for resin and catalyst; you never know how really fresh that stuff is. I was warned about that several times and the F/G place was also reiterated it.

While I never worked directly with fiber glass myself until this build, I did several designs using F/G (tubes and ducts and “pre-preg” honeycomb panels that were vacuum bagged and formed while being cooked in an autoclave) and the process specs and procedure specs on it also made it very clear that you want fresh resin and catalyst (I think there was even a time limit in there for age).

Once it has set some, then I think you can grind it off. Don’t forget the eye, ear and lung protection either.

[Steve Arndt]

Infra red is heat.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I think I goofed as I couldn't read my notes. I think he said heat lamp rather than heat gun. It was the UV or infrared that he was specific about.

Lee

[Steve Arndt]

I have tried heat lamps, IR heaters, and electric space heaters. Nothing will "kick" the reaction if there isn't enough catalyst. It is all part of the fun.

[fusername]

For butt welds, its annoying and slow, but a million spot welds works well, better than drawing small beads. I had an old Lincoln that refused to run cool, I swear a and b were the same setting. a million spot welds and DON'T get cocky, the but welds can be done.