Some interesting facts about various crankcases

bongofarmer · Post by **bongofarmer** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:22 pm

Hi guys, first post, this is a subject that's been worming around in my head. I've got time for one more good road sled in life and I missed out on the 9 series Porsche. I didn't want the 912 at the time (60's) not enough HP, now years later a 912 type vi, is a whole new deal. so i'm looking into an off campus built type vi kit, and I start thinking, OK so which case am I looking for,, and thank you very much--the answer. Jake i love your insights, I love the idea of this ride. My trips are usually 600 to a 1000 mi. rockin& rollin. bongofarmer

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:41 pm

Glad to see you are coming back into the saddle...

The 912 is an awesome TIV conversion vehicle.... I have put 99K miles on my 912E in only 4 years, some trips as long as 1700 miles (one way)non stop with zero maintenance...

And that engine was built primarily with used parts from 5 different retired test engines..

DaveB · Post by **DaveB** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:56 pm

I thought you had said something about this some time ago. It's kind of funny, after I ask you about a used 2L crank and rebuilt rods, someone gave me a 2L shortblock I need to pick up. I wanted for the rod cores anyway, and hope the crank is reuseable or good for core. About 6 months ago a friend gave me a complete 1800, heads look rebuildable.

Passatman · Post by **Passatman** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:46 am

Is the 2.0 ltr case good for doing anything then jake.

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:37 am

Sure it is, what I am trying to say is this is an area that needs special attention when blueprinting for a special, built right engine project.

I have used the plasma cutter to whittle out some gussets that can be welded on the back sides of the case registers and plan on ofering the service if it appears to remedy the issues with it's added reinforcement. After these are added and the case decked the case should be stronger than ever.

The gussets will be waterjet cut

Unkl Ian · Post by **Unkl Ian** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:14 am

How much extra machine work will be required
after welding the gussets in place ?

Thanks.

Ian

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:26 am

On this first case it was pretty intense, but once the pieces are waterjetted and I have parameters for clearance it won't be as bad. The procedure requires welding as well.

Passatman · Post by **Passatman** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:41 am

I plan on doing a 2.7 ltr engine in the future jake, but first i am going to start with a 2.0ltr engine with a mild cam. I always wanted to do a 2316 with a 80mm crank since it would be easier when going 2.7ltr all that would be needed is the top end bits for that monster. Could such a case mod ( welded gussets ) be made now while i run the engine as a 2.0ltr. Also jake is it possible to get 300HP naturally from a type4 engine.

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:04 am

I plan on doing a 2.7 ltr engine in the future jake, but first i am going to start with a 2.0ltr engine with a mild cam.

Great way to get familiar with the engine! Highly recommended as you must crawl before you can walk!

I always wanted to do a 2316 with a 80mm crank since it would be easier when going 2.7ltr all that would be needed is the top end bits for that monster.

Nope, to maximize the 2.7 the entire combo, especially the cam would be different- if you can't get everything from that much work, why do it at all?

Could such a case mod ( welded gussets ) be made now while i run the engine as a 2.0ltr.

Sure it could, but the gussetts require more than I believe you are thinking. I may be able to get the process down better in the next few times that I do it, but as it stands this would cost several hundred bucks worth of labor to do right. AND at this time its only mere speculation that it will hold up over the long haul, or if it will remedy the issue.

Also jake is it possible to get 300HP naturally from a type4 engine.

Of course... But you will need an open wallet. Also keeping the engine capable of being driven on the street is more than likely not going to be easy. Results from our Billet heads have already proved 280HP is a possibility, BUT.....

Remember, think smarter, not bigger. Build the 2316 and drive it knowing you can go cross country without needing spare tools or parts and be done with it.

Passatman · Post by **Passatman** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:33 pm

Thank's alot jake i will start life out with the 2.0ltr then go to a larger displacement. I do hope the gusset workout o.k. The heads on my 2.0ltr needs freshing up and i was thinking of letting len do them. I am going to build a 2.0ltr t4 with 110 hp and 130 or 140 ftlb of torque, can this be done jake with 44mm webers ( fairly new ) stock size valves in the heads some light porting work cam change a most. What cam do you recommend. The heads are 2.0ltr bus heads.

bongofarmer · Post by **bongofarmer** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:38 pm

Smarter not bigger, that's what i'm looking for , do it right once and get on with it . I've been a touring musician for 40 yr, pushing 60, and driving cross country with confidance(get-er-done) is an inward destination arived at from outward experence, time is priceless. BTW that rear support you have talked about making, and have a great pattern for I've got some way cheap (owe's me) shop time with a guy with 6 water jets, what's your situation. I beleive you mentioned that you need (x-no.) orders to cut. bongofarmer.

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:49 pm

MASSIVE TYPE IV wrote:On this first case it was pretty intense, but once the pieces are waterjetted and I have parameters for clearance it won't be as bad. The procedure requires welding as well.

Jake,
I have understood that welding a case up for extra strength usually results in warped cases (even with preheating before welding) that need to be machined a lot to get into spec again...
Whats your experience with this?

Tnx,
Walter

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:25 pm

Jake,
I have understood that welding a case up for extra strength usually results in warped cases (even with preheating before welding) that need to be machined a lot to get into spec again...
Whats your experience with this?

Welding can warp things, luckily the area that I am welding is far away from the critical areas that warpage could impact most. The center main is the closest of anything and since the case will be align bored afterward that will not be an issue. (align boring after this work is a requirement, whether the case previouly needed it or not)

My plan with this case is to finish the register work, then send the case out to be cryoed to stress relieve the entire case evenly. Then when the case returns the final machine work will be done, registers trued, align bore done and all other bores measured and trued as necessary including the cam tunnel.

Remember this is a very exotic uild and this work is being done as a preventive measure, as I have built many crazy projects that did not require this attention.

Bongofarmer, the fab work is no issue. I just need 8 orders to make it worth our while to tool up for the first time, after this I plan to keep the units in stock as we'll make batches every 3-4 months.

udidwht · Post by **udidwht** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:30 pm

Gotta love those 1.7 cases...

2056cc Type 4

CB case
96mm P/C's
42x36mm heads
71mm stroke
#73 Web cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm Webers
S&S header w/quiet pack
009 dizzy(German re-curved) w/Pertronix @ 28 degrees Full advance

Post by **Piledriver** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:03 pm

udidwht:

I see tou have a good timing arc---
Can you get some measurements as to where to mark a FH for "0"?

Somebody asked that the other day.

(or post a Xerox or something)