Re: front radiator in beetle and coolant lines
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:35 am
I'm at the same stage right now. thanks for the inspiration with the tubing. i like it!
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front radiator in beetle and coolant lines
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Re: front radiator in beetle and coolant lines
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:15 am
Another option that may be cheap if you know an electrician is EMT conduit. It's a thin wall steel conduit that can be bent is a electric or hydraulic conduit bender. 10' piece of 1 1/4" EMT is less than $10
Re: front radiator in beetle and coolant lines
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:40 pm
Would you recommend running copper tubing at all? Like 1 1/4" or 1" with adapters on the ends? I don't know if that would hurt the engine though with dissimilar metals.
Re: front radiator in beetle and coolant lines
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:12 pm
Funny you should ask. I was thinking the same thing. I got some good answers here http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 9&t=138042
I decided that it made the most sense to me to still choose a material that has the least possibility of galvanic corrosion. The two best choices are steel and aluminum. The worst two choices are copper and stainless. The point was made about isolation between dissimilar metals (hoses), but I know what can happen is contaminants in the coolant will still allow current to flow through it. Basically why they always say to use distilled water with your antifreeze. You also need to make sure there is no voltage in your coolant. I know that sounds crazy, but it happens (google it).
On the flip side, if you were to test your coolant and change it when it gets "dirty" you could probably use any combo. I just figure it can't hurt to use a metal that is less likely to cause problems.
I decided that it made the most sense to me to still choose a material that has the least possibility of galvanic corrosion. The two best choices are steel and aluminum. The worst two choices are copper and stainless. The point was made about isolation between dissimilar metals (hoses), but I know what can happen is contaminants in the coolant will still allow current to flow through it. Basically why they always say to use distilled water with your antifreeze. You also need to make sure there is no voltage in your coolant. I know that sounds crazy, but it happens (google it).
On the flip side, if you were to test your coolant and change it when it gets "dirty" you could probably use any combo. I just figure it can't hurt to use a metal that is less likely to cause problems.
Re: front radiator in beetle and coolant lines
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:17 pm
Copper can work harden quickly from vibration which is why is it usually discouraged; most sanctioning bodies usually discourage or outright reject copper for fluid lines. I never heard about problems with SS (I suppose it could happen) but it can be expensive and to get the really good stuff it is hard to work with unless you have the skills and tools.
Lee
Lee
Re: front radiator in beetle and coolant lines
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:46 pm
Aluminum is easy to work and rework. Great heat transfer and cheaper than stainless. Lighter to boot.
Re: front radiator in beetle and coolant lines
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:45 pm
Here is a nice basic galvanic corrosion chart
If you go down the left column to Aluminum (for aluminum engine/radiator) and then across. The low numbers are better (less potential for metal exchange) so, Aluminum to Aluminum is a 0, next best is Steel with 90. This chart recommends less than 200. Unfortunately, stainless is on the other end of the chart. This is a very basic chart. I used it so as not to be confusing. Some charts look at a bunch of alloys but it is much more confusing.
Aluminum is my first choice, but if you don't have access to a TIG welder steel might be the answer. Steel is even cheaper and you can get an exhaust shop to bend it for you or an electrician to bend it for you.
If you go down the left column to Aluminum (for aluminum engine/radiator) and then across. The low numbers are better (less potential for metal exchange) so, Aluminum to Aluminum is a 0, next best is Steel with 90. This chart recommends less than 200. Unfortunately, stainless is on the other end of the chart. This is a very basic chart. I used it so as not to be confusing. Some charts look at a bunch of alloys but it is much more confusing.
Aluminum is my first choice, but if you don't have access to a TIG welder steel might be the answer. Steel is even cheaper and you can get an exhaust shop to bend it for you or an electrician to bend it for you.
Re: front radiator in beetle and coolant lines
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:32 pm
Whats everyone using to clamp piping to underside of car? I have everything I need to have my coolant plumbing done in a jiffy just gotta figure out how to attach to bottom of car.
Re: front radiator in beetle and coolant lines
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:38 pm
Thanks all,
Rotten, we just put the car up on the hoist and bent the pipes to suit, I'd recommend doing it this way as each car may vary abit.
I went stainless over aluminium for a number of reasons.
As already mentioned the problems with copper hardening and splitting, also it looks like crap in very short time as can aluminium.
My engine is out at the moment and inside all the coolant pipes after 3years still look like they did when new.
Modern coolants have all the inhibitors and crap in them to stop things like electrolysis, I change it every 2 years or when I have the engine out.
To get the same pipe strength with aluminium as the stainless has the walls would be very thick which would ruin alot of the road draft cooling effect.
i've dragged mine on speed bumps and such and it hardly even scratches it.
Being stainless means it always looks nice new and shiny and will outlast the car.
Maybe not the same for everyone but for me it worked out the cheapest material to use, yes cheaper than plain steel exhaust.
Anyway My radiator is out of a series 1/2 Alfa 33
The original one on the left and the new replacement one on the right I bought.
Rubber seals went bad in the left one which is common on radiators that have sat empty and dry for periods of time
It's double row core size is 9"/230mm high and 21"/540mm wide and runs 2 9" curved blade fans.
Its kept my old EJ22 and now my new EJ25 perfectly cool through 3 aussie summers (hottest so far 43c/110f) now even with the heat load of an A/C condenser in front of it.
I wanted to keep a usable trunk and also carry a spare tyre
Rotten, we just put the car up on the hoist and bent the pipes to suit, I'd recommend doing it this way as each car may vary abit.
I went stainless over aluminium for a number of reasons.
As already mentioned the problems with copper hardening and splitting, also it looks like crap in very short time as can aluminium.
My engine is out at the moment and inside all the coolant pipes after 3years still look like they did when new.
Modern coolants have all the inhibitors and crap in them to stop things like electrolysis, I change it every 2 years or when I have the engine out.
To get the same pipe strength with aluminium as the stainless has the walls would be very thick which would ruin alot of the road draft cooling effect.
i've dragged mine on speed bumps and such and it hardly even scratches it.
Being stainless means it always looks nice new and shiny and will outlast the car.
Maybe not the same for everyone but for me it worked out the cheapest material to use, yes cheaper than plain steel exhaust.
Anyway My radiator is out of a series 1/2 Alfa 33
The original one on the left and the new replacement one on the right I bought.
Rubber seals went bad in the left one which is common on radiators that have sat empty and dry for periods of time
It's double row core size is 9"/230mm high and 21"/540mm wide and runs 2 9" curved blade fans.
Its kept my old EJ22 and now my new EJ25 perfectly cool through 3 aussie summers (hottest so far 43c/110f) now even with the heat load of an A/C condenser in front of it.
I wanted to keep a usable trunk and also carry a spare tyre
Re: front radiator in beetle and coolant lines
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:44 pm
I'm just using hose clamps tucked under the big washers of the pan/body boltsRottenRawb wrote:Whats everyone using to clamp piping to underside of car? I have everything I need to have my coolant plumbing done in a jiffy just gotta figure out how to attach to bottom of car.
Re: front radiator in beetle and coolant lines
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:46 am
Thanks for your radiator info Buggin_74. While the Alfa 33 radiator doesn't appear to be readily available in the US (at least not with my quick searches), it does confirm a relatively small radiator can cool the Suby. That overall size and dual core design is similar to the "Scirocco" style radiator available from several vendors.
Thanks again!
Jeff
Thanks again!
Jeff
Re: front radiator in beetle and coolant lines
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:06 pm
Alot of people use the Scirroco rads, I would have liked too but they weren't sold here in Oz so rads for them aren't easily available.
Small rads work fine due to increased coolant amount and long pipework doing extra heat exchanging if they are metal and underneath.
There's a few others EJ20T bugs getting around here with the same Alfa rad as mine.
Good air flow too and from the rad is critical too.
Alot of people just fit huge rads cos they can't be arsed setting the radiator up properly.
Small rads work fine due to increased coolant amount and long pipework doing extra heat exchanging if they are metal and underneath.
There's a few others EJ20T bugs getting around here with the same Alfa rad as mine.
Good air flow too and from the rad is critical too.
Alot of people just fit huge rads cos they can't be arsed setting the radiator up properly.
Re: front radiator in beetle and coolant lines
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:35 pm
Got all my plumbing done between yesterday and today. I suck at posting pics so anyone who would like to see if welcome to check out my facebook.
www.facebook.com/Rawbdad
www.facebook.com/Rawbdad
Re: front radiator in beetle and coolant lines
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:23 am
thanks for all the posts in this thread.
I'm still trying to talk myself into taking the plunge, and this definitely took another obstacle off my list. I really like the way you guys are running your coolant lines. I liked seeing the radiators as well. Luckily I will be using a one piece front end with as much of the original front removed as possible, so mounting the radiator and getting air to it should be super simple.
Now its just the back end issues I have to decide if I want to tackle. :[
I'm still trying to talk myself into taking the plunge, and this definitely took another obstacle off my list. I really like the way you guys are running your coolant lines. I liked seeing the radiators as well. Luckily I will be using a one piece front end with as much of the original front removed as possible, so mounting the radiator and getting air to it should be super simple.
Now its just the back end issues I have to decide if I want to tackle. :[
Re: front radiator in beetle and coolant lines
Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:54 am
Did you run both lines one on each side of the car? have you ever put a heat gun on the tube to see how hot it actually gets? my fuel lines run along one side tucked in where yours is and im just wondering if that will be to hot to be next to the fuel line???
Buggin_74 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:40 pm Underneath definately has it's advantages.
Even in summer my fans only come on if I completely stop and no heat actually radiates inside the car.
My cars fairly low and travels shitty roads too, I've not had any dramas in all these years with mine tucked into the floor pan body bolt channels
