Collision safety in our cars

[oprn]

I couldn't agree more on the upper hoops on the roll cage needing a minimum of 4" clearance. My Chenoweth sand rail frame with the seat bolted directly to the floor only gives me an inch at best above my head, not even enough to accommodate a helmet. The original designer must have been a midget! I am considering moving the for and aft overhead pipes to the center to reduce the headaches. Not ideal strength wise but a bashed in skull is not a good thing either.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

At one time that was the way things were done. I don't know why, even when talking to the designers as they sometimes didn't know why they did it (after the fact).

The seats were moved around to get out from under the cage, but they forgot that the person's body and head, even with the harness and other things still had some potential movement. Sometimes it was one quick trip out with a new rig, then it disappeared or came back differently only to do another redesign or never come back.

One of the groups of sand riders had quite a few designs done by different people. While some of the designs were good in some areas of the rail, there were not so good things done because of concentration of other design areas.

I took a lot of pictures of them for debate on what I was doing. That and new part designs were being added that I was not aware of. Some of the guys got so far into new stuff I was told they lost interest (and were getting old at the same time).

Lee

[oprn]

Some say that as time goes on we are evolving taller. I don't know if that is true or not but I am just over 6' and that is not that unusual.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Some say that as time goes on we are evolving taller. I don't know if that is true or not but I am just over 6' and that is not that unusual.

No, you are more likely to shrink.

I was a bit over 6' 1" but now at 81 I have shrunk to `5' 10". Some people shrink more and some less, but weight on the spinal column, getting tubby, time plus other things like to compress the spinal column from what I was told. I wonder if farting is like letting the air out of your tires or, especially, your air shocks

Lee

[oprn]

This has been a good discussion with lots to think about. I will lot these idea percolate over the summer in my mind and perhaps next winter will see some implementation steps.

That is if some wild man in a semi trying to make record setting miles in his allowed wheel time does not crush us like an insect! Good Lord those guys scare me! 80 mph with a full load all day long!

[Ol'fogasaurus]

It is interesting on just what happens/changes to a vehicle as the temperature changes over the year especially when it is sitting. Sometimes it is more (or less) than one expects or sometimes notices.

Where I live where there can be a lot of moisture in the air even in the warmer parts of the year. We get snow, but not a lot of it, but a pretty fair amount of moisture falls out of the air... most of the year.

Yeah, we (most everywhere in the world it seems) are also getting the "nutsy Fagen" type of life especially on the road. That and streets and highways, bridges, et al, are being repaired at the worst times for people trying to get to work, home or.... Even the sea lanes can be nuts along with the air being full of travel.

Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I couldn't agree more on the upper hoops on the roll cage needing a minimum of 4" clearance. My Chenoweth sand rail frame with the seat bolted directly to the floor only gives me an inch at best above my head, not even enough to accommodate a helmet. The original designer must have been a midget! I am considering moving the for and aft overhead pipes to the center to reduce the headaches. Not ideal strength wise but a bashed in skull is not a good thing either.

I have seen several old-style rails up for sale lately that have that old "low cage" look (the for-sale pix show it usually next to a fence with a lot of tall grass around it and junk inside it too). It is funny in ways that one buys something like that (old stuff) more for the parts only to find that obsolete or too worn (in ways) for use in new updated designs.

Instead of (usually) in the 4 glob-nick value range of the older stuff, the new commercial comes in in the 5 or 6 OMG price range. But to be honest, the more expensive ones are usually worth it unless you really want the next year's version which has other new stuff in them but then, that goes on also. Kind of a continuous lost cause isn't it. (the term Glob-nick covers monies)

Lee

[oprn]

Here is a roll cage that addresses the side collision issue I have been talking about! It has "N" shaped members and tie tubes down low to transfer the forces of impact to the other side of the car. It also has a diagonal tube behind the driver to help keep the body from twisting when hit.

There is a little rear collision protection but virtually nothing from the front. In a serious front hit he is going to be legless. The pan (the only structural member at the front end) will fold upward and crush his legs. The overhead structure is in my view, way overbuilt for a street only low rider Buggy (which is what this one is) that will most likely never ever see a roll over. That is the cage I want though if I lived in an area of high winds and big trees!
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/2491868.jpg
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/2491867.jpg

[Ol'fogasaurus]

That gap between the cage and the firewall, where the join is on the pan' rectangular tube join, could be a week spot when the front end is involved. The join looks to be small but the pan twisting (bending at the join on both a twist and/or a bend could happen.

Otherwise, it looks pretty solid.

Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Question. at the rear hoop there is a cross tube, but it looks like it is a bit high.

Usually, that tube is where the shoulder straps for the harness to connect to. Usually, the tube is little over a tube's dia. below the hole for the seat back so that the harness pulls down in the rear so the straps (if mounted higher) are not loose allowing the upper body to "get thrown" around.

Lee

[oprn]

Yes it looks too high to me as well.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

It's going to be interesting to see how you fix it.

I see (imagine) several ways but then... would they the best ways for the proper fit for you. I think I would start with the body on and all the seats in place. There are other things I think I would also check at the same time as your personal location fore and aft (dash and steering wheel for example) and fit of the side hoops with you in place. The same with the rear hoop's locations also. On my black buggy I ended up moving the seats around several times due to several different things when I had a couple of others that could end up driving the buggy also). This is called "fit, form and function" and it was something that was part of my working job.

You "squat-in-place" and have someone do the measurements (if it is you only going to be driving then you probably don't need to be in there but it is always best to double check things... both the easy and hard checks.

Our groups ended up with several different rails over the years and it was surprising the fit problems that came up even when they were custom built for the person.

Lee

[oprn]

That isn't my roll cage. I am not sure the builder is aware of the problem. I also suspect the Buggy will be mostly a show car.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Ah-huh, now I think I understand!

Over the years I have not only seen the change in buggy body designs and rail basic designs but the pan and basic tubing designs for rails. There also have been many suspension changes both good and bad but it is the safety part of things that I look at hard. I'm fighting that in my black buggy (still working on it when I have time or... want)

Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

The more I look at those pictures, the more "overkill", in many ways, I see.

A "show toy" yes but for protection I don't think I would be comfortable in it. Too many joints/joins and sharp bends for instance. The more I look the more things I see (it was one of my jobs back when I was working over 20 years ago and somethings haven't changed that much either).

Lee