ShopTalk Forums | Aircooled VW Tech & Restoration Help

I will check my books for clamping pressures and see. yep, I agree, adjusting the PP depth step increases pedal pressure along with clamping pressure, a decent amount.....of course....if you used a hydraulic clutch like my 412...that would be a moot point! It will take a couple days. Ray

Actually the ring gear is the same size, and in the same place.

It's the pressure plate that's HUGE, and it goes all the way to the ring gear, and has bits that stick out.

The 228 swap IS Doable, as long as you understand it is a PITA. has some risks to the transmission if you are not VERY CAREFUL.

Use that holesaw trick, low speed, has coarse teeth, works great on magnesium.. Use black paint and see what hits about 50 times, remove ONLY what you must.

Do *not* use a grinder.

on the samba/

I'm slow. Whats the pic of?

I don't recall VW making a motor<>trans gasket.

no, but maybe a trans<>engine-spacer.. would that work ?

add the 1/2 spacer from the starter betwenn the engine and trans, that would gain space in the trans for the pp and you wouldn't need a spacer on the starter!

i aways thought a bus starter - later years
had a longer pinion shaft, 5mm?
i only say this as i once fitted one in a stock splitty gearbox and had to cut it down 5mm
those who have even clearanced a type 1 box for 228mm
is it more than 5mm to get the pp in?

No, just need a spacer for the STARTER, 1/2"//13mm.

I made mine with a holesaw, a sawzall, and a rattail bastard cut file in about 30 min...

Just make it starter flange size, and have the starter go into a taper fit on the locating lip, and drill "tight" bolt holes...
I think I put a really long stud in the "outer" one, and tapped the spacer.
(can't remember)

The long throw late bus or 914 starters are required to get past the pressure plate.

1/2" works out to be the close enough to the difference between a T1 engine flange to starter mount vs a 091 starter to engine flange.

That way, to the STARTER, everythings in the right place.
(the 228 ring gear is very narrow, you will get 100% gear mesh...
It WORKS OUT)

An engine spacer would totally hose the clutch operation, and be MUCH harder to make...

Trust me, I did this, I'm not pulling your chain.
If you can get a shop to machine your case, consider it.
Could cost you a tranny case if you are not careful.

Will a 228 setup clear the Autocraft gearbox without clearancing? I understand it will fit most flywheel/clutch setup.

Greetings, first post, but I have some advice to this, follow the steps listed on the type 4 secrets revealed site and surface both the preasure plate mounting and the clutch surface back 2mm to push the preasure plate back, the main problem on the 228 is not the flywheel, but the huge pressure plate, the flywheel itself is the same diameter as a 12v one.

The surfacing of the flywheel saves quite a bit of hogging out of the clutch bell... though some is still required

Oh, and ignore the requirement of only the "self supported" starter working, I am using the pilot shaft starter from the 79 bus with the half inch spacer with no problem at all... I figured if it worked in the bus there should be no reason it shouldn't work in this conversion as it is spaced enough to avoid the pressure plate in the bus to begin with

Chris

74 super project - 67 rusty T4 2liter F.I. Baja

Cool--- I didn't have a non self supporting late bus starter... Wasn't sure they made them.

..But I had tried the 914 and the starter out of the 78 I had on hand, both self supporting.

Mind If I get Tuna to update?

(I think the main thing to stress is DON'T use the non self supporting bug starter, or even try. The PP will ruin it.)

There is a possibility a self supporting T1/T3 automatic starter
will clear with some minor work... Anyone tried it?

70dragbug wrote:I have an IRS trans and a type 4 with a 228mm flywheel & 228mm Gene Berg cushion grip clutch.Like Piledriver said there´s a lot of clearancing to do but it´s pretty straight forward.The teeth of the Flywheel hit against the bellhousing,so you have to clear out about 3 to 4 mm in thickness and about 4 cm into the bellhousing length,because the 228mm flywheel toothring sits deeper into the bellhousing.It doesn´t have any effect on the pressure plate fingers.

Do you need to clearance all round the bell-housing or just certain areas? Thanks.

The ring gear is EXACTLY the # teeth & dia, and (virtually if not exactly) the same depth, but the pressure plate is freaking HUGE.
That's what hits... You end up making the "hole" DEEPER in places, rather than bigger in dia per se.

It's here and there, but "there" needs a LOT of meat removed.
(far less if you do the 2mm back cut mod)

Sadly I didn't take photos...

piledirver, the back cut is deepening of the bolt/friction area in the flywheel?

PEPPE wrote:piledirver, the back cut is deepening of the bolt/friction area in the flywheel?

Yes, they must BOTH change.

You may need to shave the crank bolt heads too, they are often too close anyway.

You can get better clamping force by making one cut .010"-020" deeper when you do it, bit I can't remember for sure ATM which way, brain is fried from working in sun today.
(went back and reread thread, Ray says plate goes deeper, and I trust Ray)

I haven't personally tried it, If I need MUCH more holding power than the stock plate allows I suspect there are far better ways to go... possibly even cheaper amd MUCH lighter than a new stock setup, allowing Ebay provides...

As I have always said my first impression of the big difference between a T-1 and a T-4 engine in a bug was the gripping power of the T-4 clutch.
I just used the 210 flywheel and stock bus disc and pressure plate.

To exit my house to the road I have to go up a steep incline. I got to the top and was waiting for traffic to clear and felt that clutch grip.

Keep in mind the flywheels are real heavy. I had to get used to the fact that if you do 90 mph with a stock flywheel the car wants to keep going. It caught me by surprise. Now that I know the car it is not a problem, but if I ever remove the engine I will remove a few pounds from the flywheel.