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Yes, thank you! That is going to be a great looking buggy when you get it finished!

Very tired even after a short day in the garage.
I did get this one made then wondered if my luck had run out for the day I almost quit because of things like this:
No matter how hard you try to stop wandering (wondering if it was going to happen which you know it is) and things don't stay perfectly centered this can be the results. The other side was cut clean but this side was a shade off. One other thing you don't see here is that the top piece is jammed up inside of the hole cutting tool and that takes a while to get out as it is curved and wants to stay in, nice and protected .
This is another fight you have to deal with. The yellow hole cutter is a DeWalt and may not have been rated for metal but if you look closely a lot of teeth are missing after cutting two holes.
The results of another hole... same problem, the top of the tube wanted to get some nappy time .
This is kind of like how the pivot piece is going to be. The upright piece is not the piece that will be there but not sure yet if the post piece will be short or use the longer ones.
Though for the day, my back said "that is enough". I ended up with being one, 1 1/2" long tube short. The tube to t he right is for something else but I may shorten it up to get this finished to where the jam nuts can be installed.

Lee

Gotten curious lately for the normal tube dia. used in cages for FG dune buggies. I'm getting all kinds of answers when doing searches on the web. My blue buggy isn't close by so I can't measure it to see what it is. I'm getting diameters of up to 2" and the wall thickness climb with the dia.. The bend radius is also something I need to have good info. on.

Lee

Last night and this morning I did some more thumb screw additions to part of the mockup. I left a couple of places w/o adding any thumb screws but I did find out they are necessary. If you notice the uprights are tied with string as they keep wanting to fall over (one of the reasons for the additional thumb screws) but this will give an idea of the direction I am heading.
A front and rear shot of where I am now.
Kind of a distorted shot of a side view of the front and rear upright. It is that tube going between the two that I am most worried about.

The front and rear uprights are close enough to perpendicular and the cross bars are pretty level. The front height of the bottom of the cross tube is 1/2" lower that the 42" I think I want. The rear is about 1/2" lower also. I haven't tried to get in as things are not bolted down including the seats and I don't want things to keep falling apart like they are now (hence the strings).
This is how the new parts look. The additional jam nuts will be in the "tee" shaped parts that are, for now, just tacked together. They lock a lot/stop of movement potential.

I am going to build a set for the front also.

Lee

I went out and played with the buggy for a while this AM. I got things vertical and horizontal then I got into it with one leg still on the outside as there is nothing structural to grab onto just-in-case or help me get out. I felt comfortable and my vision ahead and to the sides was clear.

Not sure if I am going to have to raise the rear hoop up some as I didn't have anyone to help with the measurements (4" minimum from the top of my K-noggin)).

I did decide to put the centered bar between the front and rear hoops besides the side bars. It is not something everybody does but the placement of the top of the hoop bars is/can be important. Help for getting in and out.
When I had the cage for my blue buggy built the builder put the bars in bent like you see in the center bar (the center bar was his wife's idea and it had come in handy). On the other bars there are a couple of ways to do it.

1 bar in the center is not a good idea but two bars, fairly close together does help strength wise and doing so makes getting into the buggy easier.

1 bar at each side on top of the hoop is there incase you tip into something like a tree (at the bottom of the bend just makes access more difficult. In my case the guy put the bent cross bars in the center of the arc and the bend does make it easier to access and egress. In the sand where we ride there are trees in the trail hence the need to cover that possibility.

I might try to make the parts for the front hoop today or tomorrow that are similar to the ones I made for the rear (I still have to add thumb screws on two of the brackets). The thumb screws are faster to use than the hose clamps and, I think, will make a stronger mockup connection. I still have to shorten the front hoop uprights so I can install the mockup for the cross bar that the steering wheel will connect to; the same for the seat harness. Once done then onto other connections and made a decision on the fender well covers that affect the location of the fuel tank and then the steering so the body can come off again.

Lee

After a lot of playing around and trying not to do it, it is looking more and more like what was been done on the blue buggy cage (see the top pix above) might be the best way to go with the bars joining the two hoops together. Having the rear hoop lay back is not a necessity for the black buggy.

I found that the top bar in the center of the blue buggy cage was also good for a mounting a video camera on top or underneath the tube. Still trying to get things to fit right in the black buggy w/o dam(n)aging the glass body too much as things keep wanting to fall over. Figuring out the angles and bending the tube is going to be a fun thing for sure .

One of the things I accidentally did right was to make the larger dia. upright tubes over length allowing me cut them down for extra tube ends also. One of the jobs for tomorrow.

Another thing I did was to start using 1/4" dia. X 1" long thumb screws but today I did get some 1/4" dia. X 1/2" long thumb screws for some tight places. It did turn out that the longer thumb screws did make some things easier to adjust than the shorter ones would have.

For what it is worth.

Lee

Nice mockup Lee. I have a hard time being that thorough and admire those who take the time

Dougstr wrote: ↑Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:29 pm Nice mockup Lee. I have a hard time being that thorough and admire those who take the time

Thanks Doug. Been working on the cage still and changed things a bit... again; back to where I started in a way and something new in a way. Kind of like working on new designs on airplanes in a way... some things will work but in the process info comes in as so does learning; e.g., there are many ways of doing the same thing and most of them aren't that bad either.

Pix coming soon.

Lee

Spent about 3 hours of time in the garage this am changing things, making mistakes then having to clean them up. .

Up, about 2 posts, I posted a pix of a side view of the cage on my blue buggy. when the guy brought it back he told me that the two side pieces joining the "A" and "B" pillars were bent to make it easier to get in and out of the buggy. I thought that was a good idea not really realizing what he was saying.
This shot of the buggy somewhat shows what he was talking about. The rear hoop will sit about 4 or so inches behind the bend in the pan where the back of the door would have been. The front hoop is about where the front of the door would have been if a bug body was still on it. I haven't measured the distance and the off-set yet but it is a good amount.
I have tried several ways to do the top end pieces where three tube will join. The first way I tried turned out to be the best way in the end but it also requires more skill in several ways. You have to learn fast in order to save money .

The above pix also shows the two post on the top of the rear hoop. The one closest it very level while the one on the other side slants down. Somehow, during welding the mounting tube got a 1 1/2° downward slant to it which I will have to fix before I get too much farther along.

The tape on the horizontal tube mark roughly where I think the taper to the tube is going to be. Not sure of which of several was to do it but it is going to be interesting no matter which way I go.

I got most of the jam nuts drilled and did some mistakes I was sure would happen but I needed to try them anyway. If anyone is interested I don't have a problem showing them.

The underside of the rear tube is still 48" from the rise in the rear of the floor (not in the rear seat foot area) while the underside of the front hoop has been moved up from 41" to 42". That could still change.

On the cross-piece for the harness strap to connect to the mounts have been made but while the thumb screws holes have been drilled the parts not installed and the cross-tube has not been cut to length. The same for the front hoop cross-piece that the steering will connect to.

I have been looking and thinking about removing the rear wheel inner cover so the fuel tank can be moved forward. When I jacked the buggy up not too long ago I put the jack head on the underside of the pan just ahead of the torsion tube mount. I jacked it up and the whole car went up flat and level. The front end is getting too light and the rear is getting too heavy. Problem... maybe.

The front to rear hoop tubes are still a problem as the seats sit so close to the floor and are so wide they would be in the way not allowing the cage to be easily removed from the body if it is ever needed. Dusty and I talked about it a while back and maybe the idea I showed might work... maybe!

Not as easy as it seems when you go with something different.

Lee

Update: I did some rough measuring and the angle "in" towards the forward hoop rough measured around 9° to 10° and the angle down measured roughly 5°

Lee

Got some time in the garage today and worked until I lost my patience with inanimate objects .
Got the cross-piece for the harness straps to connect to. It really stiffened up the rear hoop but diagonals will be needed also. It wasn't fully level when the pix was taken but it wasn't but it is now.
Also put in a holder for the center tube going from the A-hoop and the B-hoop. In the soft sand it can make a difference even on a slow roll. Also good for a video camers.

I have see "X" style of upper cage support used also which. I would suspect, would be stronger.

Lee

At a stall right now. Too many other things going on plus I am having troubles trying to find the right sized arc/circle to use in the arcs/bends (not long arcs) in the tube.
I think I am going to have to fill and pack the tube with dry, washed sand so the tube doesn't want to oval (overkill probably but it is the way I do things) then use heat to soften the material so I can make a bend so the one end will drop about 4 1/2 to 5 inches. I think the sides might be very close to the same bend but not 100% sure yet.

To build a small temporary (roller style) of bender would cost too much money just in the three whe(eee)els just to make it. It would be a fun project but not now. (This is a plan for sale on eBay for a roller style of bender that will handle up to 1" wide flat stock. Wheeled benders for round tube get much more expensive with 1" plus dia. tube getting really expensive: https://www.ebay.com/i/303512011872?chn ... 660776fe90).

Lee

Still looking into options on how to bend the mockup bars... cheaply. Tried to fix the one corner that was not level which I did do but the tube was so thinned out that it would tack or weld w/o melting but, at least now I know how I got it out of level in the first place. The 90° magnet I used to get things square for tacking had sides on it that sat a bit higher than the magnet; the angle rode on one side a bit different than the other side did which is how the one leg got slightly off 90° on the one side of the upright post's mounting tube (I hope this makes sense).

Lee

Lee, for the mockup cage it would have been simpler and cheaper to use electrical conduit. "EMT" in telescoping sizes. It used to be popular for awnings for swap meet sellers. I have a couple of awnings made that way. Including the nuts welded to the outside of the tube sockets and 1/4-20 thumb screws to hold it together. You have what you have. So, moving on...
Another tip: the Harbor Freight tube notcher works fairly well. Not nearly as nice as the Eastwood, but not NEARLY as expensive either for not being used often. Harbor Freight Tubing Notcher


In the photo, the pin in the middle of the side of the bearing block is there to hold the shaft from turning while tightening the saw on the arbor or removing it. It does not stay in while cutting. I've had one of these since you got your blue buggy. I sometimes take the foot off and hold the plate that here is shown vertical in the bench vise. Then use a hand held 1/2" drill motor instead of the drill press.

I use bi-metal hole saws. Milwaukee is my preferred brand. Finer tooth is better.

As far as bending and welding your roll cage together, It might be wise for you to ask some of the guys on here who live in Washington to help you out.

For tubing size and wall, I recommend 1.5" OD, x .095 wall. DOM is best, but CREW tube will be fine for this job at 1/2 the price of DOM. And don't let ANYONE try to talk you into 4130 tube for this thing. That would be a gross waste of money.

To make the cage removable, I suggest making base tube sockets that are welded to the inboard sides of the body lift. It's made of MUCH stouter material than the floor pans. Use 1.75"OD x .120 wall tube for the sockets. Then pin the cage uprights into the sockets with 3/8" G5 bolts. 1 bolt per socket would work, 2 per socket would be better. NAS shear bolts would be best, but hardware store G5 or G8 would work. I prefer fine thread. The front sockets you would weld the contact tangent of the tube to the lift rail, then add strips of 1.0 x .125 strip stock on the front and back of the socket, weld one edge to the side of the socket, the other edge weld to the side of the lift rail. The rear sockets I would set in the corner of the lift and weld the socket to the side and the transverse portions of the lift. You could use the strip stock trick on those as well as the fronts. Supports for the running boards should be attached to the outboard side of the lift rails also.

Oh....
Your shoulder belts should NEVER pass through the slots in those seats!!!!! That would be a good way to get compressive spine crush if the belts were ever needed. With those seats, the shoulder belts should pass over the top of the seat back. The shoulder bar for the belts should be even with or slightly below your shoulders. So set those level for the short people and it will be close enough for tall people. Good to have some sort of holders to keep the belts from falling down off the seats when climbing in and out. That could be strap steel or better aluminum bolted to the seat for the belts to pass through.

It would be EXCELLENT to have some head restraints to prevent whiplash too. Those could mount on tubing attached to the seat bases, or to the cage.

Good to hear from you again.

The notcher you posted I had just found yesterday but it has a size limitation on it or the write up is confusing to me: "Accepts 1/2 in. and 5/8 in. threaded arbor hole saws". I will try to find who carries the Milwaukee saws around here but so far I haven't been able to find the tooth size and count I want.

I am not going to make my own cage as I don't have room to do it in even with a three car garage and a wife and her family (from what I hear) that is not happy in the first place that I am building another buggy.

Thanks for the dia. on the cage tubes. I have heard of both sizes being used and I just couldn't remember which is the best for my situation. The tube sockets are (probably) the way I am going to go. Part of the reason for the mockup was/is to find out if I had to go through the body's cowl or not. Good info on DOM or CREW.
(your pix)

The mounts on the floor that you can buy, are they similar in basic design but using the bolts (yes... two bolts) rather than welding. I know it is a basic question but since the body height is so low I am wondering about effect.

Since I have the body lift I am going to put side bars on the lift then attach them to the cage. Since we ride not only in open areas and the beach but there are trails in the forested areas. Also, people are getting stupider and stupider out on the dune and don't seem to pay attention to anyone but themselves.

I am planning on putting doublers under the floors where the cage sits anyway. The floors 'taint that strong/thick to start with.

On the bolts: I am more than familiar with AN, AND, NAS, MIL, et al spec. parts. I have either 5 or 7 fasteners I drew up make it into the NAS catalogue. One of the problems with being familiar with those fasteners is that I am aware of just what is in the different series' (been since '88 since I did design work) but what I know/knew that is available is not usually commercially available. As you know, stores cannot carry all the stock that is available so if you want something special you have to buy it yourself and in "lots" that are usually much more than you need. Been through that fun thing before. My sister's father-in-law had a fastener store but he specialized in the unusual forms so he could name his price on stock.
(your pix from a long time ago) On the seat belts, the ones I use in the blue buggy have the straps attached to a single through the slots style of setup. At the time I got it that was all that I could get locally or afford. Simpson still makes them but I don't think they are at the top of the list. I will look farther into it when I am down at the dunes.

Thanks again. Good to hear you are still around and kicking.

Lee

Dusty clued me into looking into hole saw speeds. For what it is worth: https://www.protoolreviews.com/news/bes ... ial/50639/

I'm beginning to think I might have the RPMs too slow.

Lee