Ol'fogasaurus black buggy

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I did some measuring of the body and, using a plum bob, hanging from the upper body flange (it turns inward) the location of the flange com[pared to the body's mounting flange on my buggy is about the same on both sides.

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So, on the pan with the cage mockup tube clamped to the body lift and the cage tube mounting about 3" in from the outside of the body lift this is what I get. The upper clamp that the tube sits in is flatter than the seam shows. The angle of the mounting flange has to be changed from 90° to???.

The distance from the floor is roughly 3/8ths of an inch (The red dimension, I am sure it is metric) so tomorrow I will try to figure that one out. Also, once the bend angle of the mount attached to the body lift may take up the distance also... not sure if all or just some of it. The tube, so it doesn't hit the body's upper flange has the cage tube sitting roughly 3" in which puts it the bend (the red arrow) it will need some additional support from the floor to cover downloads if there was an "endo" or rollover. The diagonal tube on the cage also helps on rollover's especially but the "endos" also.

Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

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I did some more playing around with this mockup and bent the back flat and changed the angle from ~90° to ~96°. Notice that the top of the angle is on the top of the 3" body lift and hangs a bit over the bottom of the body lift but the foot is pretty much in touch with the floor which is not flat here close to its bend. I could rai the bracket up and add a spacer to the bottom of the angle to make it pretty.

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I am also going to have to add sides to the mount and probably put a bolt cleat through the mount, the tube's fitting piece to lock the cage in place. If I can get the front hoop like this, then things will be pretty good but not sure on that yet.

Notice where the tube comes in vs. its location/relationship to the bends in the pan which, based on a lot of things I have seen in the past, a/the solid footing is necessary.

Lee

[OrangeCrusher]

Not that it helps you at all but I bet what you're trying to achieve would be a lot more straight forward if you had a floor made from flat sheet (diamond plate or whatever) to eliminate all the angling going on.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Yes a flat floor would be good, but I have gotten too lazy to tear the whole thing back down and make a new floor. There are a lot of other problems that could be fixed to make things easier, but I am getting close to 200 years old now .

The pass side of the pan is not quite as poorly made as the driver's side and that is mostly in the rear section, the foot well, that I am fighting with.

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The body also is a problem as it wasn't designed for what I am now using it for. It was a drive on the streets in my blue buggy that caused the change for a street buggy to a dune buggy. As my neighbor and I drove around on the streets kids would run out onto the busy streets yelling and pointing at the buggy. Scared the pudding out of me so I changed directions.

When I started this build, I knew very little about VWs so I went with what I could find and "HOW TO" help that was given. My blue buggy wasn't much help as there were so many mistakes in it and I had to figure that out also. I didn't even know how to weld at the time, so I bought a lot of tools and stuff and learned mostly the hard way. Some of the advice I got wasn't always good and looking at thing's others had done or seeing damage to their toys gave me a lot of info too.

Too old to start over now.

Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

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Got out and did some looking at where the front might be put. The tape is roughly where the body's cowl will let the cage tube come up at.

This is a 1" spacer to get the 3" bracket up and roughly in place.

One thing, notice the dark space between the pan and the underside of the body lift. In one of my previous posts I was working on the mockup of the seats vs. the top of the cage and said that I had forgotten to put bolts from the body to the pan and the 1" dia. tube in the body mount flange. With all the getting in and out by people to measure cage tube vs. passengers their weight caused the square tube in the pan to bend. I think, if I had put a 1" X 2" tube in place this might not have happened but that is what the gap is. If you look closely, you can see part of the garage "stuff" a few feet away. .

You also can see the doubler over the bend in the welded seams in the kerfing that shaping of the body lift.

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This is looking down and the blue arrow shows the doubler and the white arrow shows the end of the doubler vs. the location of the mockup mount. I think I am going to have to add a bit if metal here for the mount to snuggle up to.

Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

More comment on the "flat floor" thing:

Beading is a way of strengthening mostly flat stock metal, but it is good up to a point. Care, when beading, also has to be taken into consideration as too much... can be too much (this might give some information: https://blog.blackadvtech.com/sheet-met ... ns-bending). Like bending a tube, you are both stretching the metal on one side and compressing it on the other side and too tight of the bend can cause the metal to weaken up too much ("ovaling" of a tube is one signal).

Bending metal by stamping, beading or other bending tools is more common but vacuum forming metal is also done. You are drawing, by vacuuming, the metal into a form for shape but there are stretch limits to that too as again, you are stretching the metal. The one time I did some design work doing this the limit to the draw was either 3% or 6% but, supposedly, there was a new AL design in progress allowing up to 9% draw. I suddenly got reassigned to another airplane model in another town, so I never got to hear if that was ever completed (there is more to the story but I am not sure of all of it).

https://www.bing.com/search?q=vacuum+fo ... 4d49109a6c

Some sites that may give some information.

https://www.fabricatingandmetalworking. ... h-in-mind/

https://garage.eastwood.com/welding-wel ... eet-metal/

Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

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I have posted this pix many times but for those who may not have been to the (Pacific Ocean in this case) ocean beaches the water is saltwater, and a lot of salt is in it. The water, when the tide goes up and down (and not just a few feet and can go back covering the beach as far back as where the camera made the photo and it leaves salt on the sand besides moving the sand around.

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This shows one half of the underside of the pan. The raised areas here are the underside of the stiffening flanges which are deep when looking at the pan's insideand the ones that look like they are lower would be the raised areas of the inside of the pan.

When you drive around on the sand, sand gets thrown up and some of it lands in the buggy on the floor and/or can hide under things that are clamped to the floor or not vacuumed out and allowed to sit there. And then there is the salt laden air to consider.

If I were to put thicker material in where the cage mounts would be I would have to remove the foot well and weld thicker material to the thinner material and the sizes of the stock could matter and for so many reasons. If I put the cage mounts to the floor (I think necessary) then I would have to somehow seal off the lower parts of the bead work, so the sand or salt air does not collect there. If I put Doublers on the bottom of the pan for support of the cage mounts, then sealing this area from the sand or salt air would have to be done also.

Also the pan is still twisting (no body to transfer loads or hold the body/pan assy somewhat even with a fairly stong cage added plus the protective coating on the metals could wear off also. All things to consider so one could protect the area(s) and the people inside (including pets being taken out to the sand or the beach).

Am I over killing, probably but this is the kind of stuff and reasoning of what I have had to live with both when I was working and based on stuff I have seen over the years and ... it never went away!

Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Up in Lynden WA for a hour or less meeting tomorrow then back home on Tuesday. Its been quite awhile since I've been here and the drive has changed a bit, something close to 100 miles I think. So far the hybrid is doing well fuel mileage wise on these no-around town trips.

Lee

[bajaherbie]

It may be a good time to sell it it Lee.


It was hard for me to sell my baja but I'm over it now!

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[Ol'fogasaurus]

It may be a good time to sell it it Lee.


It was hard for me to sell my baja but I'm over it now!

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

Then what will I do for to keep me and my mind busy. There is a lot of "background stuff" going on (both buggies involved) which I don't talk about which is at another head right now. Ignorance of some is not always bliss for the subject person. I sure get tired of it.

Thanks for the advice.

Lee

[bajaherbie]

I saw this on the interwebs.... I think I make a Ranchero out of my Grand Marquis this fall/winter!

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[Ol'fogasaurus]

If I remember correctly, a Ranchero style of FOMOCO vehicle Mercury (or Lincoln for that matter) never made. It would be interesting, unique, and maybe fairly easy to do. I have had several Rancheros over the years and the main problem I had with them (and the number was 2 if I remember correctly) is the seam between the floor of the bed and the front chamber on the passenger side could develop leaks so watch the seams. The '66 I got from my father may have been in a wreck some time before he got his but I'm not sure on that.

Not sure if any additional support structure is needed in the bed area or the join area but it would be a good idea to look into it for sure.

Lee

I got curious about this and did a search on it and found this: https://www.bing.com/search?q=Did+the+M ... 29&pc=U531

You never know about things (or forget them in some cases).

Lee

[bajaherbie]

I knew that Mercury never made one, all I would need to is swap out the front grille from a Crown Vic... here is a custom one made from a late fifties Merc.


Sorry about the hijack.

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[Ol'fogasaurus]

Doing some more research, Mercury did make a Ranchero up to I think it was 69 but I think it may have been in Canada.

That Mercury looks pretty cool. Is the top off a Lincoln?

I don't see why you don't try to recreate something like your pictures but also make it yours not a total copy.

I've done a couple of conversions and made some mistakes also so be prepared, do your ground/homework. Check part numbers (one of my mistakes delt with bellhousings as I didn't know that there were at least 2 and the size difference was great) and get good info especially on the bed and make things strong.

Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Almost every time I go out to the garage I go over to the buggy and look at it for options. The main thing right now it the rear hoop location of the cage and it's mounting to the pan and its relationship to the seats.

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The pan is sitting pretty close to level, but the vertical tube is perpendicular but not to the pan. It tips slightly forward of this pix, a bit closer to the back of the seat. I did sit in the driver's seat to check head location and I think this should be OK for the tallest person in the group who might dive the buggy (assuming it does get done).

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Without the body on I can clamp the mounting bracket to the body lift. I did slide the mount towards the back but just in front of back of the pan where it tapers down then the radius's in the outboard side of the pan floor. Since the tube, when the body is on, has to sit inboard so much the mount for it is going to be a couple of inches inboard and over the bend in the floor so there will have to be two spacer's built to secure the tube and to clamp to the floor with an under pan doubler added. As thick as the pan is (I originally had a thinner metal commercial pan in place but it was scary thin) any sharp down loads have to have the loading dispersed for safety.

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This shows the seating arrangement. When I sit in the buggy the driver's seat does not sit all the way back. The passenger's seat is in a fixed location to where I sit so I can see the sides a much as possible. The passenger seat also has a latch that allows it to tip forward for access to the batter and other possible things mounted back there.

The front hoop is also going to need some spacing and reinforcing of the pan for mostly the same reasons. I can get in and out when the body is in place and the wheels are on the floor .

With all the rain and cold weather we have been having here so far this year my other jobs are not getting done as fast as they should. Its "misting" out right now (a thick dark gray overcast and tiny raindrops heavily coating things).

Also having a battle with squirrels right now. They are very smart and to be smarter than them, but not to get too smart to cause other problems, is the current battle.

Lee