4 SEATER BUILDUP COST/COMPONENTS

[shopteacher]

a project is sure easy when you have all the parts and an example... thankyou STF and thesamba
spindles, shims, pins, and bolts ..complete kit... complete stage

check our site for the picts.. thursday

[shopteacher]

Obtain COMPLETE KIT BEFORE YOU START: Through bolts, bushings & nuts, Combo Spindles, Shim/bushing Kit, HD Link Pins, & Trailing Arms
Insert bushings into spindles hole to the inside
Install through bolts bushings and trailing arms
Level trailing arms and measure vertical offset (ours was 5.5mm)
Shim pins according to offset chart see HERE
Insert pins and shims
Make sure spindles have same link pin angles... YES there is a backwards way to do it and the bolts wont line up straight-rotate 180 degrees, re-insert
assemble: Pin head-shims-spindle-shims-trailing arm-o'ring-keeper-nylock nut
insert pin bolts
snug to fit

see it all on
http://www.honkernet.net/AHS/department ... indles.htm

[shopteacher]

tie rods are a little too long but that can be remedied (theoretically)




shock mount range of motion measures about 9 3/4 inches of travel
at the spindle tips the full range of motion allows for 14 inches of front wheel travel.. (tie rods finger tight and R&P on with hose clamps

most likely we will limit this to less than that since 14 inches of travel bangs the tie rods to the frame.

if we rotate the R&P a little foreward will that increase the bump steer? it will allow the tie rods a freer motion.
right now there is very little apparent bump steer though the entire range of motion


thoughts?

[tuff_puff]

it is hard to "gauge" bump steer with the naked eye. what "looks" like very little motion at the spindle, could be 5-10* at the front of the tire. the best way to do it is to measure how far away the front of the spindles are from each other through out the motion of travel. or to use a angle finder. i think if you can get it down to under 1* bump steer your doing ok. but shoot for 0*

[shopteacher]

it is hard to "gauge" bump steer with the naked eye. what "looks" like very little motion at the spindle, could be 5-10* at the front of the tire. the best way to do it is to measure how far away the front of the spindles are from each other through out the motion of travel. or to use a angle finder. i think if you can get it down to under 1* bump steer your doing ok. but shoot for 0*

measure the spindles tip to tip when they are at full droop and jounce? will try that.

after looking at a few beamed front ends with R&P brackets already welded in.. it looks like we are in the right spot to start with.

the real gauge of bump steer will be when we get it all tightened down and aligned with wheels. right now the tie rods seem a bit too long... the front wheels are toed in and the tie rods are adjusted all the way in.

how do you fix bump steer when the R&P is welded in place?

[david58]

it is hard to "gauge" bump steer with the naked eye. what "looks" like very little motion at the spindle, could be 5-10* at the front of the tire. the best way to do it is to measure how far away the front of the spindles are from each other through out the motion of travel. or to use a angle finder. i think if you can get it down to under 1* bump steer your doing ok. but shoot for 0*

how do you fix bump steer when the R&P is welded in place?

You want to check the bump steer at the distance of the tire tread to get true bump steer not at the spindle. I would bolt a straight edge to the spindle long enough to measure toe in the front and back (9 o'clock and 3 o'clock) of the tread the same way an alignment machine works. Cycle the suspension thru full travel with the steering shaft locked down and the rack tack welded in place. If the tie rods are too long fix that problem first.

[shopteacher]

we need tires on the front then first.. working on that.. we think we have some 195 15" we can have if we pull the studs.
should work for the shakedown

[david58]

we need tires on the front then first.. working on that.. we think we have some 195 15" we can have if we pull the studs.
should work for the shakedown

Or you can bolt a straight edge to the spindles the same length as the tire diameter and measure the bumpsteer where the inner edge of were the tread would be at 9 0'clock and 3 o'clock. It is lot lighter using a straight edge when you cycle the suspension.

[tuff_puff]

we need tires on the front then first.. working on that.. we think we have some 195 15" we can have if we pull the studs.
should work for the shakedown

Or you can bolt a straight edge to the spindles the same length as the tire diameter and measure the bumpsteer where the inner edge of were the tread would be at 9 0'clock and 3 o'clock. It is lot lighter using a straight edge when you cycle the suspension.

it will be the same thing, at the tires or at the spindle. it is just easier to read it the further it is away from the point of movement. (spindle center) but i did miss one huge point. and that is to have the steering shaft locked in place. i think they will be ok with not tack welding it in place though. you can get the same thing with hose clamps (just make shure its not moveing at ALL). tack welding it makes a mess if you have to move it 10-15 times before you get it right.

[shopteacher]

straight edge (straight piece of wood or lightweight steel) sounds good..level at 9 and 3 the diameter of the tires
we will move the suspension to the same spindle height (droop mid, jounce) off the ground and measure the front and back.... should be the same logic tells us... LOL that would imply ZERO bump steer.
we will upload images to our build site for future reference.
most beams with brackets installed are at 90 degrees for the mount. if we push past that.. we run the risk of more bumpsteer
thoughts?

[Skidmark]

I went through all this one my project about eight months ago. I ended up with the mount 3 degrees forward - but that depends on the trailing arms, beam width, spindles, etc. I have heard some end up with 7 degrees (this is leaning toward the front of the car).

It is simple geometry on bump steer measurement. The closer to the spindle you measure, the smaller number you will get. Definitely measure at the tire's outside diameter. It's easier to tell the difference.

[shopteacher]

cool... thanks
good to know that someone is seeing what we were seeing
3-7 degrees.. that may help solve out tie rod length issue as well..

if we had to cut them down... we will take some from each end and measure. right now we have visible toe in with the tie rods all the way in.

we finish up our rear trailing arms this am and measure for axles... rolling chassis hopefully early april
shakedown later on in the month

[turboblue]

we will take some from each end and measure

Do you have both left and right hand taps the size of your tie rod ends?
Sometimes you have to drill the holes deeper and tap them further.
You'd have to have both taps to do that.
Just take the extra length off the RH end if you don't have the LH tap.

Get your T/O bearing and flange seals yet?

[shopteacher]

we will take some from each end and measure

Do you have both left and right hand taps the size of your tie rod ends?
Sometimes you have to drill the holes deeper and tap them further.
You'd have to have both taps to do that.
Just take the extra length off the RH end if you don't have the LH tap.

Get your T/O bearing and flange seals yet?

YES.. thanks a lot and lots of stickers for our shop box/side panels

good point... on the tie rods... we will look into that

right now dealing with a disc brake HUB issue,.... the hubs are too big(thick) and will not accomidate the bracket for the disc brake caliper


UPDATE.. according to the people who sold us this system.. we are missing teh OFFSET BRACKET that needs to be here to make th larger hubs work with a 3x3
new seals tend to rub and create a little friction.. but all is good in the rear end (trailing arms that is) when you have the RIGHT parts to start with.

[shopteacher]

front reasonably complete



rack at about 10 degrees and bump steer is almost gone

caster and camber will need some adjustment when the shakedown occurs