GDI for A/C VW

[Redline Weber]

My plain is to use the Ford GDI V-6 fuel injectors AND piston shape.
The "shown" piston looks different than the Ford GDI piston I have in hand.
The FORD GDI injectors I have in hand have a "easy to use" length.

I believe the piston Crown is used to "hold" the injected fuel, like a pot of boiling water.

I have made Injector Pods before for use in a Liquid Propane injection system.

I would use the "best" sparkplug location, the upper.

MY current quest is the fuel pump drive.

Lance

[Piledriver]

It might be easiest to bolt that on the side of a fabricated belt driven shaft with the 4 lobe cam inside.
(almost same work to get it running off the cam drive, with no worry about overloading the t1 cam drive tang)

It doesn't need to be synchronized with the cam timing.

[Passatman]

Pile. Do you have information on what the spring pressure is like on the GM GDI pump i posted here.

[Piledriver]

Pile. Do you have information on what the spring pressure is like on the GM GDI pump i posted here.

Absolutely no clue.

I'd cut a chunk off the factory cam and the pump if bolt on (some are), and probably make a belt driven pump.
(even if it needed an oil feed/drain)

I could be wrong but I don't think it would have to be synchronous to the cam, given the wild injection timing change between modes and possible VVT.Driving off the cam is just convenient for the OEMs.

Some power steering pumps will make 1000 PSI all day long... and there are electric power steering pumps.
I'm sure an electric pump of some design could be ~viable. Would simplify things.
Just a thought.

Think I worked out a reasonable initial strategy for the throttle setup across the different GDi modes... http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 25&t=54929

[Passatman]

Well! I wrote Delphi on the spring tension matter, do hope they reply with an answer.

[Piledriver]

The spring load is probably lost in the noise compared to the 900+ psi from fuel pressure...
The spring exists simply to allow the pump to suck fuel in on the downstroke.
area of the piston bore in sq inches * psi.

[Piledriver]

My plain is to use the Ford GDI V-6 fuel injectors AND piston shape.
The "shown" piston looks different than the Ford GDI piston I have in hand.

I'd love to see a pic to compare the different crowns.

I'm already hunting a cheap fsi head etc for my 86 Cabriolet, it appears it fits with trivial work, and should provide ~10:1 cr. Should be relatively straightforward once some cheap driver boards show up.
(they don't look like any rocket science is required)

[Passatman]

I'm already hunting a cheap fsi head etc for my 86 Cabriolet, it appears it fits with trivial work, and should provide ~10:1 cr. Should be relatively straightforward once some cheap driver boards show up.
(they don't look like any rocket science is required)

Pile am i to take it that you have a vw golf. Hmmm! Cheap FSI head. Are you looking at using the Mk4 FSI head.

[Piledriver]

I'm already hunting a cheap fsi head etc for my 86 Cabriolet, it appears it fits with trivial work, and should provide ~10:1 cr. Should be relatively straightforward once some cheap driver boards show up.
(they don't look like any rocket science is required)

Pile am i to take it that you have a vw golf. Hmmm! Cheap FSI head. Are you looking at using the Mk4 FSI head.

Unless I find a complete 1.8 or 2L FSI or TFSI motor cheap.

Some of the FSI heads will in fact bolt on (filling one of the heads oil return holes)
IIRC at least some of the heads also sport port injector holes.

It's cheating, but all I really want to do is get MS to work well, not develop a stratified charge GDi motor from scratch and not have a baseline to compare. It would be cool to do it on an aircooled, but the feared injector CHT issues are a very real possibility using the Bosch or Delphi injectors.

They also have the lovely simple binary exhaust cam profile selection, not continuously variable VVT, it's one cam lobe or the other.

I still think the Orbital system would work OK aircooled, as it has been used for that since ~day one.
Unfortunately suitable "auto" sized air injectors may not exist, nobody will tell you anything unless you are an OEM.

(Redline Weber might have some traction on that subject)

[Piledriver]

Neat info pulled from a related thread on MSextra.com, link is to very interesting thread on motecs website.
It appears Mazda likely once made the required stand alone external driver box we need...

http://www.motec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=60

Perhaps one of our Aussie or European members could score one of these early driver boxes from a Mazda 3 MPS for me?

Arrrgh, the part# on the unit pictured is for part of the climate control and entertainment system, someone goofed.

[blue thunder]

Just use the GDI module from a early GDI Mitsubishi. I have several GDI injectors, high pressure pumps etc. off a VW 1.4 TFSI engine, and will use the Mitsubishi GDI module (have 2 of them) for driving the low impedance injectors. You can drive the module with normal injector outputs (switching to ground) and the module will give a high voltage peak for fast opening and will regulate the current for the rest of the opening time. Very curious how it will perform on an aircooled engine

[Piledriver]

Good call, some of the the early Mitsubishi pumps also look like possible candidates for belt drive, and all the parts can be had cheap, for better or worse, due to age.
They are 1st gen Delphi parts IIRC.

Have to check on the waveform/electrical compatibility, but looks highly probable.

[Piledriver]

I have the injector driver module from a Mazda 6 (MazdaSpeed) L3 w/TC 2007 enroute. (GDi)
$43 shipped. Will need the connectors//pigtails, but I think that was a US model, as the part is coming from the US, so may not be difficult.
(edit: another $25 shipped for the matching pigtail, also in the mail as we speak, dumb driver, pw in=pw out, except with a ~90v leading edge spike waveform as a solenoid kicker for the Bosch gdi injectors)

I'm also poking holes in a scrap 1.7 head to see where the "dual plug" second plug must go... Far easier on t1 heads, but once I have a jig... it appears perfectly located, and at least on 1.7 heads already lives in a pocket.


If dead, and not repairable, it's probably still worth it, I will simply reverse engineer it and design a new board.

Schematics & diags strongly indicate it is indeed a dumb 4 channel driver, L pw in = pw out, except with a suitable output waveform for Ford/Mazda (Bosch) GDi injectors.

I will document everything.

MS3 would allow me to run MPi sequential and GDi to keep the ports/valves clean, so that will probably be the way forward. The 2.5 was going to have staged injection/MS3 anyway.

Looking for roller foot GDi fuel pumps now and considering how to beef up the oil pump tang etc...

Given what TFSI motors go for, the 1.8 T4 currently w/MS3 may see it first, followed by the 2.5/NickiesAlfing crank/Crower rod motor. The chambers/pistons I have will work just peachy, the JEs for the 2.5 have plenty of meat where the stratified charge pocket could go, if needed... not a sure thing.

I may missappropriate a GM AIR pump I have for a few minutes of carefully aimed after shutdown injector cooling.

[Piledriver]

Here's a Bosch Diesel (common rail) pump off a Hyundai Tuscon, looks like the VW oil pump drive might be viable after all with a wider tang and matching mod to cam, or something similar might be converted to a belt driven unit.

This likely won't work for GDi, sadly, but I'm sure there's a very similar GDi pump out there.

Tuscon-hppump1.JPG

Tuscon-hppump2.JPG

Also, $35 scored a pair of F150 ecoboost rails w/pigtails and pressure sensor, should be trivial to cut down and re TIG to proper spacing/angles/mounts for a T4. I'm thinking 3000 psi WP braided SS/teflon hose for the crossover, flex.
(there will be several sections and maybe flex required due to injector angles) and the pigtails for the Mazda GDi driver box for $25.

[Passatman]

Well delphi responded to my email query about spring pressure on their GDI pump. See mail response below

Thank you for contacting delphi.com.

We appreciate your interest. This product is not sold through Delphi's aftermarket division. Please contact your local authorized vehicle dealer's parts department or the vehicle manufacturer directly.

Sincerely,
delphi.com Customer Service