Automatic drag transaxle

Post by **Tom Notch** » Sun Jul 08, 2001 12:11 pm

Which box, Mike? The buses used 2 sizes, 003 and the 010, and the T3&4 box is a 003.The spyder gears in the diff would be the power level deciding item in the 003, while the lack of low numerical ring and pinion sets would be the speed/rpm limiting factor of the 010.

I should have a reasonable feel for the T4 003 power handling capabilities soon. Got one in my Notch and just buttoning up the 2.7L motor for it. I'll let ya know how it works out.

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Tom Notch
Tom's Old VW Home

Muffler Mike · Post by **Muffler Mike** » Mon Jul 09, 2001 7:25 am

Went to EMS friday afternoon and just my luck, Hobi's car was on the rack.
sure enough, Just like Steve said, the diff is offset in the box. but that didnt stop Jimmy from setting every thing up. the motor sits a inch to inch and a half to the right side. And the diff is centered. the box is also raised like i thought so most of the oil pan sits above the frame horns and one one side is lightly notched. 3/4"-1" I took some pictures, but i just have to get off my lazy butt and put them up soon.

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Muffler Mike
www.MufflerMike.com

Steve Arndt · Post by **Steve Arndt** » Mon Jul 09, 2001 9:40 am

Post the pics Muffler Mike! It sounds almost possible!
Hey Tom S., how about you throw in a bus auto into the Oval for me before I pick it up

Steve

Tom Simon · Post by **Tom Simon** » Mon Jul 09, 2001 2:01 pm

As Mike mentioned, the way Jimmy turns a pan car into a Super Street chassis, he raises the engine and tranny 3-4 inches with new front, mid and rear tranny mounts, so width and frame horns interference shouldn't be an issue for a race car.(I guess you could do this for the street too) The engine offset of 1-1.5" shouldn't be an issue either, as racecars usually have no inner sheetmetal to worry about.
I was talking with a friend of mine this weekend (at the Pomona 50th NHRA Nats) he says someone did a Vangon Automatic conversion for the Piazzo Brothers a number of years ago. Does anyone else remember a bug that the Piazzo bros ran that had a slushbox tranny? I'd be really interested in seeing Hobie's car, it might have to wait until Labor Day. Pics would be great, Mike, if you can swing it. I should probably just go down to the local Pick-N-Pull and see if I can buy one of those Boxes. It doesn't sound like anyone tuned in to this forum (yet) has any first hand knowledge of this automatic bus box. I also wonder if it will tolerate not only high horspower, but dragracing abuse.
My particular project I'm considering an automatic for, is a Lummus chassis car, so I have some different constraints. It's currently setup for a type I tranny, so "one-off" prototype motor plates will have to be made. And maybe different forward pickup points for the forward plate. I'd have to mock-up an auto case in the chassis to see if any other chassis work would be needed before deciding weather or not to go this route.

Steve Arndt · Post by **Steve Arndt** » Mon Jul 09, 2001 3:00 pm

Tom,
When I hook up with the Oval on Labor day lets do some browsing of the drag cars at Sact BOR and see some ideas in person! You know the cars to check out better than I do!
Steve

GDRBO · Post by **GDRBO** » Mon Jul 09, 2001 11:16 pm

Dimentionally type 2, 3 and 4 autos are very similar maybe even identical. There is one thing about them that I haven't figured out yet. If you turbo the motor will it destroy the modulator when the motor goes on boost? It is normally vacume operated.

briansbug · Post by **briansbug** » Mon Jul 09, 2001 11:32 pm

got my hands on a audi 010 trans today. the thing looks reasonably strong, about the same size as c-4 inside. looks like the sprag is going to be the weak link. i think that a disc can be added to each drum with a little machine work. possibly cryo-treat the sprag section? studying the valve body now , might be able to reverse pattern the shifter. i'm sure i can make a trans brake for this little juice box!

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power is an addiction

briansbug · Post by **briansbug** » Mon Jul 09, 2001 11:35 pm

btw anybody got a hydraulic schematic for an 010 trans? it's not in the factory type 2 manual. it would make life alot easier(possibly an audi manual?)

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power is an addiction

RickS · Post by **RickS** » Tue Jul 10, 2001 6:58 am

The Pizzo Bros ran an auto in a prostock fastback around 1993 if I remember correctly. It was featured in VW Trends, don't have the mag anymore but someone who does might be able to shed alittle light on the subject. I also remember Bitcon Engineering doing a couple of type 3 autos.

merfin78 · Post by **merfin78** » Tue Jul 10, 2001 9:19 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by briansbug:
got my hands on a audi 010 trans today. the thing looks reasonably strong, about the same size as c-4 inside. looks like the sprag is going to be the weak link. i think that a disc can be added to each drum with a little machine work. possibly cryo-treat the sprag section? studying the valve body now , might be able to reverse pattern the shifter. i'm sure i can make a trans brake for this little juice box!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

when you get the brake made i want to buy one have someone doing the converter now email [email protected] i am in SO.CAROLINA

Steve Arndt · Post by **Steve Arndt** » Tue Jul 10, 2001 9:39 am

Vanagon and Bus gear ratios including manual and Automatic. http://volksweb.relitech.com/helmut/GEARBOX.HTM

Steve

GDRBO · Post by **GDRBO** » Tue Jul 10, 2001 9:36 pm

Bitcon has done more than a couple of type 3 autos. They have been working on autos for desert racing for something like 20 years. I beleave the Raceauto that was shown up the line is their product.

briansbug · Post by **briansbug** » Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:27 pm

the vacuum modulator will be removed and replaced with a solenoid for the trans-brake. also it won't be needed with a manual valve body and neither will the governor. if the trans still had the modulator you could put a check valve in the vacuum line allowing vacuum but not boost.

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power is an addiction

briansbug · Post by **briansbug** » Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:34 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by merfin78:
when you get the brake made i want to buy one have someone doing the converter now email [email protected] i am in SO.CAROLINA<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

it may be a bit before i get the brake figured out and the bugs(pun intended) worked out of it.i will let everyone on this forum when i make it work.

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power is an addiction

Tom Simon · Post by **Tom Simon** » Wed Jul 11, 2001 12:28 am

Hey Brian,
I have found hydrolic schematics for sale for about every automatic ever built, even Corvair powerglide... but not VW yet. As far as making one of those VW type IV auto's live, perhaps one of us should call Dave Folts or Jeff Feilds.