Type 4 turbo: 2,2 ltr: New cooling system

[Alby]

Looks GR8 Wally
Cant see any contact details for MSS on the web, where they based?

[Wally]

Germany: http://kaefer.motor-sport-service.de/

[Alby]

Thanks Wally,
Very VERY NICE Web site / Product
Watching with interest as I would like to use P/cooling on my 2270 build starting later this year .
Im currently running a dry sumped 2056 which will go in my bay when I swap.
Cheers Alby

[Wally]

Dynorun from last november filmed by Jeroen

[type3]

Wow, just wow! I haven't checked this thread for a long time. Some great improvements!

[sved]

Looking forward to the new fan shroud.In the car, will be different

[4agedub]

Wally, I've been following your thread for long now... and as you know from all my other threads I've started with my t4 turbo project.
If you do not mind, I'm in need of some info regarding the turbo that you are using.

My engine is 2666cc t4 high compression methanol turbo. The turbo I've been looking at using is a Garrett GTX3076r with .82 t3 exhaust housing. I do not really want to rev the engine past 6000rpm and need boost early. But will this turbo be too small? What size would you recommend?

[Wally]

My engine is 2666cc t4 high compression methanol turbo. The turbo I've been looking at using is a Garrett GTX3076r with .82 t3 exhaust housing. I do not really want to rev the engine past 6000rpm and need boost early. But will this turbo be too small? What size would you recommend?

I figured you were gonna ask a difficult one
To be honest: I would run a bigger turbo, actually the one I a running now would be great for your application as well because you have so much displacent, even my turbo, which is basically one size above the GTX30R would spool soon enough to get out of a corner quick, even though the 30R will always spool sooner as its a smaller turbo.
The reason I would use a bigger turbo is not to make more power, but a bigger turbo has a bigger turbine side and that generates less backpressure and that leads to lower exhaust gas temps. With a 2,7 ltr T4 on a track, you WILL need all the help you can get in keeping temperatures down. All temperatures, head (CHT), EGT, oil, all of them.
Besides, a plain bearing turbo spools just as fast as a ball bearing one, despite what people tell you. It certainly has advantages but it will save you $600-1000,- too in purchase price
If I would get one now, it would be the SX300 83-75 with forged milled wheel in T4 0.91 A/R and a curved turbine wheel. See www.full-race.com for what I am talking about.
I don;t run a twin scroll with a T4 flange for no reason, but the decision is up to you...

[4agedub]

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

This one?? http://www.full-race.com/store/turbos/b ... turbo.html

The engine will not be used in my circuit race car, personally I do not think the bug t4 would last as well as a t1... (I might be wrong ) The engine is going into my street legal bug just for fun.

Borg warner turbos are a bit difficult to get a hold of here in SA, thus the reason why I'm mainly looking at the Garrett range. I would love a Garrett with twin scroll housing as they work real good.

I know you have real world experience with a t4 turbo, so your info is really appreciated.

We have our own rolling road and I've seen a lot of turbo cars on the dyno. Just as an example my one customer with a 3sgte toyota has experimented with a couple of turbo's and the outcome is amazing. Firstly he had a cheapy t3/t4 on the car. Then he changed to a Garrett GT3076r with 0.63 exhaust. The turbo spooled up about 1000rpm earlier and made 40kw more on the wheels at the same boost. He then changed to a Borg Warner (I'm unsure of the size, but the wheels measure very close to a GT3076). The borg warner is twin scroll 1.03, with this turbo we saw full boost at 2600rpm and again it made about 15kw more than the Garrett at the same boost. So yes, the borg warner does flow better and spools up real quick. But the borg warner was real expensive compared to the garrett.

[Wally]

We have our own rolling road and I've seen a lot of turbo cars on the dyno. Just as an example my one customer with a 3sgte toyota has experimented with a couple of turbo's and the outcome is amazing. Firstly he had a cheapy t3/t4 on the car. Then he changed to a Garrett GT3076r with 0.63 exhaust. The turbo spooled up about 1000rpm earlier and made 40kw more on the wheels at the same boost. He then changed to a Borg Warner (I'm unsure of the size, but the wheels measure very close to a GT3076). The borg warner is twin scroll 1.03, with this turbo we saw full boost at 2600rpm and again it made about 15kw more than the Garrett at the same boost. So yes, the borg warner does flow better and spools up real quick. But the borg warner was real expensive compared to the garrett.

Thanks for sharing the experience. Good to hear that from someone else

That one is just $800,-- I see now thats rediculously good value btw.. The GTX Garrett's are about $2K ? Can;t understand how a BW can be more expensive (unless your talking EFR range, which are unobtanium atm), its actually the other way round. Just take a look at the price lists from one supplier.

But I actually meant this one:
http://www.full-race.com/store/turbos/b ... turbo.html Thats a 700 hp turbo btw, about the same flowing as the one I have.
Get the curved tip for even a tiny better spool. I have the flat tip turbine wheel
Full-race ships everywhere and the 30R and 35R Garrett's are apparently not really designed for twin-scroll, so you probably won't get the benefits of faster spool with a twinscroll Garrett in those sizes, unless you step up to a 4088R...

If you measure back pressure (its rather simple in hindside), you will start seeing the differences in relation to EGT.
Like I said, a 2,7 aircooled engine can really need all the help it can get, especially on the track.

[4agedub]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

The Garrett GTX30 retails for around $1062 USD locally, so they are actually priced real good. I'll do some more research on the borg warner turbos. It sure does look like a exceptional turbo.

[Wally]

No problem man;
GTX30 for that amount is hardly possible I think...
US retail for the new series ball bearing Garrett GTX (billet compressor wheels) turbo's is $1800-2000,-- in the US as far as I know.
Your sure its ball-bearing and a garrett original?

[Wally]

As per title, slowly but surely reassembling the engine with the new central orientated cooling system.
Because, when you're not using a distributor anyways, why not put the fan in the 'correct' place

[Rba]

Yummy!

[CobraJet]

Yea, Wally is back at it!