upright turbo build
- Chip Birks
- Posts: 4043
- Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:59 pm
Re: upright turbo build
You could always run one gauge attached to a 4 way rotary switch. You could then run the signal wires from the box to the switch and then one wire to the gauge. Simply rotate through the spots on the switch to show the different cylinders.
- Chip Birks
- Posts: 4043
- Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:59 pm
Re: upright turbo build
As far as timing adjustment based on egt. I'm pretty sure the ms2 doesnt do anything with the data, you can log it though. A sequential ms3 install on the other hand can use the egt data to cut spark if things start getting crazy. individual spark and fuel trims can be setup too. Ms3 can listen for knock with appropriate sensors attached and retard timing per cylinder if desired.
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- Posts: 198
- Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:09 pm
- Wally
- Posts: 4564
- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 12:01 am
Re: upright turbo build
That grill is really nicely done!
- Piledriver
- Moderator
- Posts: 22777
- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 12:01 am
Re: upright turbo build
Chip Birks wrote:As far as timing adjustment based on egt. I'm pretty sure the ms2 doesnt do anything with the data, you can log it though. A sequential ms3 install on the other hand can use the egt data to cut spark if things start getting crazy. individual spark and fuel trims can be setup too. Ms3 can listen for knock with appropriate sensors attached and retard timing per cylinder if desired.
The latest MS3 firmware can add fuel (per cylinder) based on EGT, and do per-cylinder knock retard, along with the safety shutdown options.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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- Posts: 198
- Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:09 pm
Re: upright turbo build
Thanks Wally!
I didnt know that Pile. My megasquirt experience hasn't gone any further than my n/a ford 2.3 with MS2. Chip posted this link in another thread I started,
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/cane ... p-542.html
I will be able to use that with the gauge I want to run,
http://thesensorconnection.com/gauges-p ... ge-display
but with the per cylinder knock retard option would it even be worth buying that gauge, or would I be ok with 1 gauge monitoring 1 cyl?
I didnt know that Pile. My megasquirt experience hasn't gone any further than my n/a ford 2.3 with MS2. Chip posted this link in another thread I started,
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/cane ... p-542.html
I will be able to use that with the gauge I want to run,
http://thesensorconnection.com/gauges-p ... ge-display
but with the per cylinder knock retard option would it even be worth buying that gauge, or would I be ok with 1 gauge monitoring 1 cyl?
- Piledriver
- Moderator
- Posts: 22777
- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 12:01 am
Re: upright turbo build
It basically depends on how wild the engine is.
If you just want to keep an eyeball on it, that gauge (assume with alarms) is a great choice.
If the engine is running on the hairy edge, and you want the ECU to do something about the sensor inputs, the gauge is nice, but essentially eye candy.
That's a GREAT price on that aircraft gauge, I remember similar units costing several times that last I looked.
The issue with TCs is you can hook them to a visual gauge, or you can hook them to your ECU via an interface like a CAN-EGT, and have the ECU do something with the info, including sending it to gauges on the virtual dash in TS/logging or one of the dashboard programs, or an actual CAN gauge.
But only one connection/TC, as far as I have ever tried it. (a lot, at work)
You MAY get away with splitting the signal as the TC amps are high Z input, but I would expect some inaccuracy to creep in. (it would be easy to test, but don't expect it to work... but it might)
There has been some work done on low cost meatspace CAN gauges in std 2 1/1/6" size, analog or digital readout.
If you want both that gauge and a CAN-EGT or IOX, you probably need 2 sets of TCs.
If you just want to keep an eyeball on it, that gauge (assume with alarms) is a great choice.
If the engine is running on the hairy edge, and you want the ECU to do something about the sensor inputs, the gauge is nice, but essentially eye candy.
That's a GREAT price on that aircraft gauge, I remember similar units costing several times that last I looked.
The issue with TCs is you can hook them to a visual gauge, or you can hook them to your ECU via an interface like a CAN-EGT, and have the ECU do something with the info, including sending it to gauges on the virtual dash in TS/logging or one of the dashboard programs, or an actual CAN gauge.
But only one connection/TC, as far as I have ever tried it. (a lot, at work)
You MAY get away with splitting the signal as the TC amps are high Z input, but I would expect some inaccuracy to creep in. (it would be easy to test, but don't expect it to work... but it might)
There has been some work done on low cost meatspace CAN gauges in std 2 1/1/6" size, analog or digital readout.
If you want both that gauge and a CAN-EGT or IOX, you probably need 2 sets of TCs.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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- Posts: 198
- Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:09 pm
Re: upright turbo build
Well that can egt has 8 ouputs, Im assuming they will pass the TC signal through to a gauge. I honestly need to read up more on it. Ive read about guys making their own gauges, but for $370 I will be able to watch everything at once, and most likely set an alarm like you said.
Now for knock sensor, what do you recommend?
My plan was to use my original heads and have someone go through them, but it makes more sense to buy a set already done. These guys seem to have a good priced head with some options.
http://www.brothersvwmachineshop.com/heads.htm
Now for knock sensor, what do you recommend?
My plan was to use my original heads and have someone go through them, but it makes more sense to buy a set already done. These guys seem to have a good priced head with some options.
http://www.brothersvwmachineshop.com/heads.htm
- Piledriver
- Moderator
- Posts: 22777
- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 12:01 am
Re: upright turbo build
The CAN-EGT passes the TC "signal" on via CAN only, its a specific-function version of the IO Extender usually called the IOX.
It may also have some outputs, but they would be CAN controlled from the MS2/3.
If you are in love with the cool gauge (and I don't blame you), daisy chain a TC to two inputs and see if it still reads right.
If it does, you don't have to compromise.
The CAN gauges I was referring to is a low cost DIY project a fellow was working on.
It may also have some outputs, but they would be CAN controlled from the MS2/3.
If you are in love with the cool gauge (and I don't blame you), daisy chain a TC to two inputs and see if it still reads right.
If it does, you don't have to compromise.
The CAN gauges I was referring to is a low cost DIY project a fellow was working on.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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- Posts: 198
- Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:09 pm
Re: upright turbo build
Is there any way to run 8 channels to the CAN gauge aside from an 8 way switch? The gauge I was looking at is nice, but $370 is a little must for it to maybe work lol.
- Piledriver
- Moderator
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- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 12:01 am
Re: upright turbo build
You can try splitting the TC//send it to both.(use TC wire ONLY)tonyorlo wrote:Is there any way to run 8 channels to the CAN gauge aside from an 8 way switch? The gauge I was looking at is nice, but $370 is a little must for it to maybe work lol.
The TC amps are high impedance inputs, so it MAY work OK.
Otherwise get thyself a spool of TC wire and make your own TCs.
It is not hard at all, just twist and crimp for this use.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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- Posts: 198
- Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:09 pm
Re: upright turbo build
http://www.omega.com/temperature/z/pdf/z004.pdf
Looks like I can use a transistor to bump up the signal. Just a quick search on eBay, they are only about $8 each on there. That means I will have to buy 8 of them, but if it means I can still use that cool gauge then I'm for it. It looks like there are temp ranges for them, looks pretty simple.
Looks like I can use a transistor to bump up the signal. Just a quick search on eBay, they are only about $8 each on there. That means I will have to buy 8 of them, but if it means I can still use that cool gauge then I'm for it. It looks like there are temp ranges for them, looks pretty simple.
- Piledriver
- Moderator
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Re: upright turbo build
Using a 4-20ma current loop converter/transmitter is a fine method, but requires a different gauge with current loop input.
(unless they sell a similar boards to reverse the conversion, and you would need 8 TC>4-20mA transmitters and 16 current loop >TC reverse converters if they exist)
Buy the setup most important to you first (gauge or CAN-EGT etc) and try simply splitting the signal to two or 3 inputs and see what happens to the reading.
If it reads the ~same in the temperature range of interest, its probably OK.
(unless they sell a similar boards to reverse the conversion, and you would need 8 TC>4-20mA transmitters and 16 current loop >TC reverse converters if they exist)
Buy the setup most important to you first (gauge or CAN-EGT etc) and try simply splitting the signal to two or 3 inputs and see what happens to the reading.
If it reads the ~same in the temperature range of interest, its probably OK.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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- Posts: 198
- Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:09 pm
Re: upright turbo build
What about running 2 separate tcs in the exhaust, bad idea? It seems like the most simple way that I know will work with both.
- Piledriver
- Moderator
- Posts: 22777
- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 12:01 am
Re: upright turbo build
Doubling the sensors is sure to work, but adds cost/complexity.
Try splitting the output between 2 channels and see if it works properly before spending the extra energy/money, you can always add more sensors if it doesn't.
This would not work on the cheap sensor powered gauges like the typical VDO CHT/EGT in dash gauges, but the electronic ones have input amps that draw ~no current, so it may.
Try splitting the output between 2 channels and see if it works properly before spending the extra energy/money, you can always add more sensors if it doesn't.
This would not work on the cheap sensor powered gauges like the typical VDO CHT/EGT in dash gauges, but the electronic ones have input amps that draw ~no current, so it may.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.