ShopTalk Forums | Aircooled VW Tech & Restoration Help

Just a catch up note. I'm staying with a bolt on kit, but I've thrown the budget out the window. I've recieved my Golf MkII non-powered steering rack ($59 on Ebay), which should do very nicely, and order a set of 86+ Porsche 928 spindles, hubs, and lower ball joints($600+ at 928 International). Next up I'm going to order either standard BMW 3 Series or M3 lower contol arms. They are designed to handle the stresses, but are very compact as opposed to a typical A arm. This is the first step in my NO CUTTING bolt on double wishbone front end. The top arm is still in the works, maybe carbon fiber if I get really crazy, but whatever it is I'll be holding out till the end not to have to cut that inner fender well!

Jason

It will be interesting to see how you avoid cutting the inner fender. You can see pictures of how I did it at the Germanlook/suspension gallery site. Mine looks like a "hatchet job" on the inner fender of my beater '74 "test car", but that allowed for any adjustment that was needed. I had to raise the upper arm to avoid the R&P steering tie rods which required clearance cutting and a spindle 'extension' for the upper ball joint. I could have moved the upper arm pivot inward and bent the arm to clear the inner fender, but would have compromised the geometry too much. Good luck and post some pix if you can!

Hey Jay,

The Porsche parts have arrived now, so I can get a look at the dimensions. Really, it just depends on what geometry I want to use. If I use short upper arms I can put the mounting points on the outside of the inner fender, if long arms, on the inside, but instead of cutting out the inner fender, I will build bent arms. As long as the two pivot points are correct, the arms can be any shape between the two points. Bent will allow the arm to drop under the sheet metal, though it will have to be beefier and will have to be heavier than a straight arm. I'm going to mock up the top arm in PVC pipe first to figure out what will clear, then fab up a steel one.

Jason

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Of course, the length of the upper arm (in relation to the lower arm) affects a bunch of other things, too. With mine, it turned out that the camber 'gain' and roll center height I wanted put the upper pivot right into the inner fender for the optimal suspension geometry. Hoping to avoid that with the 'new version'. There are a lot of examples of the bent upper arm being used by the automakers for the same reason. Looking forward to seeing your setup when it's done.

An update. Parts are still arriving. The list now includes:
928 S4 spindles w/lower balljoints
928 S4 rotors (WOW)
Golf II manual steering rack
Golf II tie rod assemblies
Volvo P1800 lower ball joints(to be used in upper ball joint position)
17" Porsche Cup II wheels
www.geocities.com/volkdent/

click on Conversion

Jason


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The latest:

As you can see, good things take time. I'm about a month away from the first prototype.

The current list of parts:

Standard KG spindles
5x130 drilled stock rotors
Golf II manual steering rack
Golf II tie rod assemblies
Volvo P1800 lower ball joints(to be used in lower ball joint position)
Ford Galaxy tie rod end(to be used in upper ball joint position)
Completely custom A-arm suspension system
QA1 coilovers(to be upgraded to Ohlins in the future)
17" Porsche Cup II wheels

Here's a taste of what I've been working on.

http://www.geocities.com/volkdent/Front ... rtial.html

The Latest,

http://www.geocities.com/volkdent/FrontEnd.html


Jason

The design is now complete. Scroll down to the bottom of A-arm conversion. Bob is doing some finally modelling of the spindle, the the complete suspension is finished. Building will start as soon as the spindle modelling is complete. I'm thrilled with the way things have turned out. Bob is an amazing guy!

Jason

Design is complete.

http://www.geocities.com/volkdent/Front ... rtial.html

Sooooo, when, how much, etc. etc. etc.?

"Sooooo, when, " - At the rate I've been going thus far I'd say late this summer, maybe winter.

"how much, " - The prototype that I'm developing now has cost as much as a decent bug so far, but it won't be until I'm done that I'll have an idea of how much it could be duplicated for. Definately not for the faint of wallet unfortunately.

"etc. etc. etc.?" - This has been a labour of love for me on a lifetime hobby, so I really don't expect anyone to be crazy enough to spend this kind of cash on this kind of setup. I've had some very clear goals, the main one being that it can be bolted on, and that has created a bunch of challenges. I suspect that a easier and cheaper version can be made using the prototype as a reference point, but it will be heavier. Another costly goal was limited cutting of the body and chassis. So far, the only thing I had to cut was a section of the webbing that extends from the edge of the pan to the frame horn. This was required because for the ride height I wanted placed the lower inner pivot points in the plane of that area, and the travel of the lower control arms would foul on them.

Jason

" - At the rate I've been going thus far I'd say late this summer, maybe winter. "

That's acceptable.


"The prototype that I'm developing now has cost as much as a decent bug so far, but it won't be until I'm done that I'll have an idea of how much it could be duplicated for. Definately not for the faint of wallet unfortunately."

Spread the cost over a few copies? I'm sure I can't be the only one interested in making a flying squirrel out of a pigeon and a regular grey squirrel

"This has been a labour of love for me on a lifetime hobby, so I really don't expect anyone to be crazy enough to spend this kind of cash on this kind of setup. I've had some very clear goals, the main one being that it can be bolted on, and that has created a bunch of challenges. I suspect that a easier and cheaper version can be made using the prototype as a reference point, but it will be heavier. Another costly goal was limited cutting of the body and chassis. So far, the only thing I had to cut was a section of the webbing that extends from the edge of the pan to the frame horn. This was required because for the ride height I wanted placed the lower inner pivot points in the plane of that area, and the travel of the lower control arms would foul on them."

We all (at least most) do this due to a passion for the brand and model. It would invariably be less expensive to buy a 'better' car but we don't. So, I'd be interested in your test results from your set-up once you're done with it. When you think you're ready, I'd even like to buy one of the set-ups as it wouldn't be as invasive as converting my Ghia over to Super Beetle front strut framehead and suspension to get better handling.

Soooo, hook a brother up

Will do! I just talked to Walt today. He's a serious metal fabricator, he built "Rat Patrol" that has become so famous over on Volksrodders forum. He'll be the one building most of the suspension, I just don't have the talent for it. His shop has every bell and whistle you can think of for serious metal fabrication. He's booked out about 2 weeks, then he and I will take a look at the plans and start the grunt work.

I just printed out the instructions for the front end today, its 28 pages long! I'm just not looking forward to the bill from Walt.

Jason

... and if you decide to hook a "brother" up, you're probably gonna have a nephew and a couple of cousins who want in also.

All joking aside, definately tool up now to produce several. The demand will probably be there... humm, wonder if I could fit one under my bus...

Heck, I didn't realize the family was so durned big