Any MassIVe's in Central CT?

redhopper35 · Post by **redhopper35** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 6:29 am

I was wondering if any of the members of this board live in central Connecticut and have one of Jake's MassIVe Type 4 Engines running in their car. The Reason I ask is because I have saved the money (Finally!) For a new daily driver. I really want to hear one run before I make the commitment to buy one.

I've previously detailed my woes with the "middle year" Porsche 911S that I owned and how I would Not make the same mistake twice. It turned out to be such a poor daily driver and a money pit that I had all but given up on the dream of owning a 911 style car again. I've been following Jake's progress with the type 4 engine closely for some time now, and read about his experience with the 912E It really has me thinking. I'm So Close to going the 912E route. I'm now looking to buy a 912E or 911SC for my daily driver. The only remaining reason to even consider buying an SC is the flat six 3.0. By all accounts it is a very good engine and when my 74 911 was not in the shop. I have to say I never EVER enjoyed driving so much. The sound of the flat six was a delight. I would go the long way home on purpose just to spend more time in the car.

In nearly every way that I'm concerned with the 912E seems to be a perfect fit. And let's face it. With gas prices what they are, Gas Mileage is more of a consideration than before. But I'm not ready to buy a prius yet. Maybe for my next car.

I guess I need some more convincing. I would hate to get all set up and hear myself say, "It's just not the same thing", Or "It's a great car and engine, BUT it sounds like my 74 Bus" I hope this makes some sense. As you all are enthusiasts I'm sure it does resonate with some of you.

I'm open for opinions? Is it possible to have the Total Porsche Experience with a 4 Cylinder engine?

Before I spend 15K or so, I just need to be sure.

Thanks for reading my post, and have a great day.

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:01 am

First off, when the six cylinder engine breaks it's not easy or cheap to repair... Thats when the total "Porsche experience" is mostly felt...

My engine has an elevated initial cost, but if it breaks the repairs are simple and way cheap compared to the 911 engine, and a VW mechanic can repair it, or you can- no need for Porsche shops filled with pricks that charge 100 bucks per hour to do nothing..

I do have some engines in CT, one of which is 5 years old and owned by "Lenny C" a member here. It is installed in his 550 Spyder replica. He has made a testimonial on my website and its posted here http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/cust ... index.html Note that his engine has given him service for 5 years and he has only had to send me a couple of emails with questions.. He might be in your area.

As for hearing the engine run: Don't put any stock in the way something sounds! Lenny's car sounds great, but the proof is in the experience of driving it and he might take you for a ride... Maybe-

The 912E is a great car. The engine in my car will have it's 100,000th birthday later this week- thats 100K flawless miles in less than 4 years (September 13 2002 was dyno day for it). I love driving my car, but I took it off the road earlier in the year because I almost got rear ended 4 times in 6 weeks! I started driving the Pinzgauer daily but it only gets 20 MPG, Vs the 35-40 I get in the 912E. I drive 83 miles a day round trip to the shop, so at 3 bucks a gallon it adds up quick...

Is it possible to have the Total Porsche Experience with a 4 Cylinder engine?

Thats according to what your definition of that is?? I'm not fond of the six cylinder engine, to me all Porsches are 4 cylinders without radiators and real "Carreras" have 4 cams that are bevel gear driven, not belt driven!

what you experienec with the Type 4 engine is totally different than the flat six, the engine has more torque at lower revs and doesn't need redline to make power.

Or "It's a great car and engine, BUT it sounds like my 74 Bus

If you are looking for a sound, you are buying an engine for the wrong reasons... I hate to tell you, but it's the truth....

My engines don't sound like that, because we have tighter tolerances and different materials than stock and the clackety clack is not noted like with a VW or stock TIV engine. My roller lifter development will be adding even a quieter sound for 2007 series engines (all engines ordered now will be delivered in spring 2007 and some qualify for the rollers already)

Here is a thread from a person who experienced one of my engines (2270 TIV) at the VW Classic earlier this year. He was another person that sound meant a lot to and as you will see he was impressed.
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... ill#715955

remember that not much of the engine remains "as factory" after my work is completed, and my work is different from anyone elses, so nothing you may have heard, felt or experienced with a non RAT engine applies..

Sixes are a dime a dozen, I saw so many 911s(thousands) at Le mans that they all looked like Civics after a while.. The oddity there was 912s and they got more looks than most 911s!

Good luck with your decision making, it seems that you are to the point where we should begin dialogue. This page walks you through the entire process step by step, every engine I build follows this series of events.
http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/order-process.htm

I look forward to working with you.
BTW- do a search for Lenny, he browses the boards from time to time.

mfhead · Post by **mfhead** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:20 am

Find an "E"... it is a wonderful little car... preferably one with a sunroo...

redhopper35 · Post by **redhopper35** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:33 am

Jake

I only have a budget of around $15K max. I would love to spend more but I have a house to build and such and It was difficult enough to allocate that much. I don't really think I want to go through like 6 steps to find out I am too poor for a 2270.

I am sure I cannot buy a 912 and one of your engines for that, So I think we should make it a 2056 Kit. I really would like a 2270 but I'm betting it woud cost like $10K leaving only 5K to get a car. Not to mention any incidental repairs the car may need.

regards

slowtwitch · Post by **slowtwitch** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:22 am

MASSIVE TYPE IV wrote: I do have some engines in CT, one of which is 5 years old and owned by "Lenny C" a member here. It is installed in his 550 Spyder replica. He has made a testimonial on my website and its posted here http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/cust ... index.html Note that his engine has given him service for 5 years and he has only had to send me a couple of emails with questions.. He might be in your area.

I met Lenny at this years Lichfield show and he had a ton of good stuff to say about his engine. Great looking and sweet sounding car

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:53 am

I am sure I cannot buy a 912 and one of your engines for that, So I think we should make it a 2056 Kit. I really would like a 2270 but I'm betting it woud cost like $10K leaving only 5K to get a car.

When going with a kit, the costs are so close between a 2056 and a 2270 that going with a 2056 really isn't wise. An extra FIFTY HP can be gained between a 2056 and a Type 4 Torquer version of the 2270... When you can get 50 ponies for about 1500-2K, you damn sure better do it!

My complete engines are a different story, whats costs more is our labor and the 80 hours of our lives that it takes to get the engine through all the processes, tuned, dynoed and crated for direct install..

Thats why the engine shop and Type 4 Store are vastly different and totally separate, not even located in the same buildings.

redhopper35 · Post by **redhopper35** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:06 pm

That may be true but i want the better fuel mileage of the 2056. Going forward gas is only going to cost more.

plus you ran the 2056 in your 912E and seemed to be very happy

When buying a kit would there be a chance to talk to you on the phone. Before I buy the car I should make sure that this is the way I'm going to go and that I can afford it. If I knew how much things cost I would know what i could go with. Your prices seem to be shrouded in mystery and it makes me nervous. No sense in buying a car only to find i can't afford to get the engine i want. Like I said I have 15K to spend. Is that enough or do I need to save more?

Regards

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:39 pm

Your prices seem to be shrouded in mystery and it makes me nervous.

Thats because no two customers or cars are the same. I have probably never had the same size engine cost the same amount, so the only way to know for sure on a complete engine price is by chatting on the phone.I will say that the smallest engine we build complete is a 2270 and it will cost a bare minimum of 9,000.00 to buy one.

I really do not like it when a customer(any customer, no matter the purchase) is "Nervous". I require my engine kit and complete engine customers to trust myself, my employees and our knowledge 100% before I will accept a single dime for one of these purchases. One unsatidfied customer is not worth the profits they generate if we have disagreements, or anything less than a perfectly smooth transaction.

When even a broad price is made people want to hold us to that, so I removed any and all possibility of that a few years ago. Of corse engine kits are another completely different type of purchase.. I try to share as much information on the kits as I can in their descriptions and have included dyno charts, head flow sheets and complete spreadsheets of their internal components to be viewed by the customer prior to their purchase. Kits are a retail sale and I can talk to you prior to a purchase if you make an appointment with me on a Wednesday night, but I can't spend the kind of time with you that a complete engine customer would get... Kit engines require intervention from the user and place all those responsibilities that I charge for in the hands of the customer or their mechanic- that must be understood from day one. I don't do any "Hand hlding" through the process, I do give suport but it is limited (and has to be)

My 2056 in the 912E has been a GREAT engine, but I have always really wanted a 2270. when I built the car I did plan on driving it much, but that really changed! Now that it has logged 100K the 2056 will be coming out over the winter and a "Roller" 2270 will be taking it's place.

Displacement and power doesn't get worse MPG as a general rule- my 3 Liter engine got 25 MPG @ 235HP!

As far as aving enough money, right now I'd say that you are borderline if you intend to do the job right with a 2056 and that you will need to save a little while longer to do a 2270. This is taking into consideration that a solid 912 or 912E will cost 7-8K. The 912E would be the cheapest way to go and the easiest since you would already have a cooling system, core engine and the small necessary things and the engine would bolt right in.

It's better to keep the car on jack stands or the engine apart than do the job half assed and hasty! Haste has become such a problem on the customers end that I'm almost ready to require that all complete engines be installed only by a certain few installation shops, no one wants to take the time to do the job right.

redhopper35 · Post by **redhopper35** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:40 pm

Jake, when I said I was nervous I meant nervous about buying the car and not being able to complete it do to the money issue. I am definitely not nervous about your abilities or the things you can offer. I hope that is perfectly clear. The only reason I've even considered a type IV in the first place is because of you and the way you have tested and tuned and tested again. I know you know your stuff. of this I have NO doubt or reservations.

I really DO want to do the work myself, and I don't do anything half way.
I will have to go with a kit engine at this time because I don't really want to sink anymore money into the project at this time. And to be honest I really want to have the satisfaction of assembling the engine and all the little troubles that come along with it. I like a challenge. I have built engines for my own cars in the past so I don't see any problems. With your help, and your assembly video I should be able to complete it. I guess the other info I would need to complete a type IV build are available in some form. If the info is not available then it would be nearly impossible for anyone to complete one unless they were you.

I appreciate your help and your posts and again I say that any worry I have is not related to you or your ability. It simply has to do with budget and how much I want to spend on this Car. and as long as assembling one of your kits is not a kin to a "Black Art" I should be able to do it.

regards
red

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:54 pm

OK, thats better!

Any engine kit, especially the 2056 is ready to assemble after cleaning IF you purchase our "prep work"... The kits assemble with the aid of the video, just like a stock engine. The only difference is with deck height and rocker geometry, both of which I assist you with.

I will begin shooting a step by step engine kit assembly video in the next 6 weeks. This will come with each engine kit and will not be for sale! This allows you to follow step by step to complete assembly just like I would as we are using a 2270 kit to base the video from.

with the conclusion of the Hot Vws article this month things are going nuts here since guys now see the result of the engine power wise as well as the cross country trip data. You might want to get started sooner than later..

Also on August 1 engine kit prices go up acrioss the board 150.00 since the price of head castings have went up in the past week because of the dollar Vs euro exchange..

redhopper35 · Post by **redhopper35** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:57 pm

how do we go about getting a kit purchase started?

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:37 pm

PM me your phone number. I have two slots left in myschedule for tomorrow evening, one at 8PM and one at 9 PM EST...

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:20 pm

Red,
I am in Manchester (business) and Bolton (home).
Right now I have one of Jake's 2270 engines in a crate at my shop waiting to go into a 914 I am working on for a customer. It will be at least a month before the engine is in and running though. The rust repair is still going on right now.
I have an engine that Jake built in my 914 race car up at the house, but that wouldn't give you a feel for his street engines. This is a 1.8L that makes 180hp at 7500rpm.

You are welcome to stop by my shop for a visit. Just call first. 860-647-8719.

vonkr · Post by **vonkr** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:43 pm

Is it possible to have the Total Porsche Experience with a 4 Cylinder engine?

You didn't knew that porsche made 4 cylinder engines for decades?