Roller Cam

914fan · Post by **914fan** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:06 am

Jake,
Has the Roller Cam post you made been repaired, of found? I just read about your 107mm Beast that will use the rollers. Can you update us. I know that I will not be able to purchase anything for a long while, but I love all the developements. It makes my inability to purchase now almost a blessing. Our engines are starting to look like computers. It seams that almose every week there is some new developement that allows for a more efficient package.
Its not hard to imagine that in 1-2 years you will have an engine that has rollers, direct efi/spark, full coatings, without a throtle, with a turbo and who knows what else that will displace 2270 and make 300-400 streetable. All while running perfect temps and getting 40's or better MPG.

Have you looked into electronic valve actuators? (or whar ever they are called) That would eliminate the cam and allow for larger strokes (until the case can go no further) and also allow variable cam profiles to be used based on rpm, load, etc.
Nick

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:28 am

There have been huge developments in the past 2 weeks with this.

don't be suprised if a majority of my engines are roller equipped by this time in 2007. I have put all involved into high gear with this development process and will have data in 2 months or less and then plan on going big time from there.

Have you looked into electronic valve actuators? (or whar ever they are called) That would eliminate the cam and allow for larger strokes (until the case can go no further) and also allow variable cam profiles to be used based on rpm, load, etc.

If I could only tell you about some consulting work I have done in the past year......... But due to that (and binding legal documents) I can't talk about anything concerning non conventional valve technology or actuation. Beth don't even know and neither does my dad!

But I can talk all about the rollers, (since it is conventional, just not for a TIV) but won't be doing so until we have more ground work laid...

When you see what I have come up with in the roller arena you'll be astonished, but I have now looked to those who have more insight about certain parameters of the arrangement to help us do it the absolute best way possible!

Tooling is being made now to true the cases and install bushings for perfectly square installations and new 8620 tool steel billets are being redesigned and CNC'd to change everything abot the TIV camshaft to maximize the development...
I have found several very enthusiastic people that have a multitude of experience with roller applications with other engines to help me make all this work, but the main idea and resign is all RAT.

BTW- this is nothing new here, I built a roller 2270 in 2004 and it just turned 20K miles. The results of a 20K mile tear down (just for wear purposes) showed incredible things that gave the roller program a kick in the ass...

In early plots, based on a generic V8 Roller cam grind a 2270 that makes 180 ponies with flat tappets goes just over 210 with rollers and the TQ and HP below 4,500 RPM is up by over 20%!

Note that i said a "Generic" V8 cam... As we speak I am making cut aways of an engine and tooling to measure every aspect of the engine so we can effectiely creat the fastest most aggressive cam profiles possible with the TIV engine. This is the first time in a long time that I have done something this big from scratch and its a big challenge, but is very, very fun!

More will come in due time....

Let me cover a couple points:

It makes my inability to purchase now almost a blessing

yes and no... if too many people wait for us to make the perfect engine (which is impossible) then we can't generate capitol to continue developments. I do ALL OF THE R&D out of MY pocket with only some assistance from other members of our network (LN Engineering, HAM, CFR, etc) to help me with some of the other related parts- but none of that is free.

So that means that we have to keep building engines and selling parts for us to make these big things happen, when things slow down the first things that halt are new developments. If people wait and wait for the perfect engine it will most certainly never be created.

This is why I try my best to make all these developments work with our current engines, or even an engine 5 years old. When a customer wants more they tear it down and replace some parts and get more and get it better! A good example is the fact that everything we have developed since 2001 could be applied to a 2001 engine today, in 2006 to end up with todays results. I can't even think of one part that could not be swapped all the way back to 1998 to get todays results.

The moral of this part of the story is not to wait for the perfect engine, buy it when you can afford it and upgrade it when the parts and technology is available. When sales drop due to waiting, I stop developing.

It seams that almose every week there is some new developement that allows for a more efficient package.

Thats because its happening just that fast, especially with cams, heads and exhausts. Your welcome.

Our engines are starting to look like computers.

Thats exactly what my goal has been since the beginning.

Its not hard to imagine that in 1-2 years you will have an engine that has rollers, direct efi/spark, full coatings, without a throtle, with a turbo and who knows what else

You can't even imagine. But even then it could still be made better.

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:53 am

Oh yeah,
I built the first 2270 "Roller" in 2004. It was sold to a customer willing to drive it for 20K and then send me the parts back, for a big discount in engine price.

The results of this engine (over 180HP from a 2270 when other 2270s were 160 at MAX) as well as the wear it saw (or lack thereof) over this time period has really given the roller program the boost it needed.

This engine was built with a generic camgrind, generic lifters and was our first experience with the rollers- the results would astonish you.

Follow this link to my R&D pages to read what I said about this engine in 2004. Instead of being installed in my 912E it was sold as I mention above. Other than that everyting else is just as I mentioned 2 years ago.

http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/r_d_2270.htm

The new design is different from the prototype and will require case machining, but thats more due to the fact that the case bores must be 100% perpendicular to the camshaft with rollers or "cam walk" occurs....

Never fear, cam walk will be no issue, because my design incorporates a scond thrust bearing in the cam tunnel and a second thrust surface on the cam blank...

my65bug · Post by **my65bug** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:03 am

So this is only going to be available in the type iv format?

BigOlJohnson · Post by **BigOlJohnson** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:04 am

Ummm, Type Is already have roller cams available to them...

BOJ

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:25 am

BigOlJohnson wrote:Ummm, Type Is already have roller cams available to them...

BOJ

But they are only for full race applications, not STREET CARS..

And their cases are not strong enough to hold the loads that are placed on them for very many miles.

The TIV lifter bore is naturally strong and can be made stronger if need be very easily.

my65bug · Post by **my65bug** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:52 am

MASSIVE TYPE IV wrote:
BigOlJohnson wrote:Ummm, Type Is already have roller cams available to them...

BOJ
But they are only for full race applications, not STREET CARS..

And their cases are not strong enough to hold the loads that are placed on them for very many miles.

The TIV lifter bore is naturally strong and can be made stronger if need be very easily.

Ya that is kind of what I meant. I knew the t1's had them but the way you talk about them these are far superior to the old stockers.

914fan · Post by **914fan** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:48 pm

Jake,
Thanks for the reply. I'll take what you said (or didn't say) to mean that you have looked into them. I remember seeing them at the long beach grand prix around 96 or so. The first thing I thought was Wow I want that with direct fire fuel and spark. I could drive for ever with no heat issues and TONS of power. I cant wait to see what you can do with what you are not yet allowed to speak of.
As far as getting an engine It is my plan to get one. (I need to be able to drive my teener again) but like many people I have a shortage of funding. As soon as I can you know I'll buy from you.
Again thank you for all your R&D.
Nick

What about direct injection? I assume you have also looked into that. With some companies providing that in the newer cars parts availability will increase. Lost of new VW's have that. I think the injector incorporates the sparkplug and uses the piston as the ground electrode.

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:51 pm

What about direct injection? I assume you have also looked into that. With some companies providing that in the newer cars parts availability will increase. Lost of new VW's have that. I think the injector incorporates the sparkplug and uses the piston as the ground electrode.

I have not looked into it at this point and honestly have never seen the set up.

Now that you got me thinking.....

my65bug · Post by **my65bug** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:29 pm

MASSIVE TYPE IV wrote:
What about direct injection? I assume you have also looked into that. With some companies providing that in the newer cars parts availability will increase. Lost of new VW's have that. I think the injector incorporates the sparkplug and uses the piston as the ground electrode.
I have not looked into it at this point and honestly have never seen the set up.

Now that you got me thinking.....

Direct injection is crazy. VW removed a valve from the 20 valve head and installed the injector. Using that they can run like 10:1 compression with 1 bar of boost. The fuel pressure is crazy, something like 75 bar. But it works. Honda is doing something similar with 16:1 compression.

914fan · Post by **914fan** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 7:50 pm

I think the only down side was that NoX went up. Not a problem on our cars. Beside I bet that it Jakes engines run cleaned that factory right now.

914fan · Post by **914fan** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:25 pm

Wow I suck. I meant to say that I bet Jakes engines run cleaner than when new.
Jake have you ever tested one of your engines for smog. It would be interesting to see how they fair as compared to what ever the smog limits are / were back in the 70s.

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:42 pm

I send a lot of engines to Cali, only one has neded more than one trip to the Smog station...

OriginalCustoms · Post by **OriginalCustoms** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:34 pm

The cam lobe is also plotted on the closing event and just a few degrees before the valve would slam against the seat it is parked, and slowly settled onto the seat!

That's some crazy stuff. If you need an R&D engine, I have those 2270 parts you sent me that I can build up with rollers.

Stripped66 · Post by **Stripped66** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:16 am

MASSIVE TYPE IV wrote:Oh yeah,
I built the first 2270 "Roller" in 2004. It was sold to a customer willing to drive it for 20K and then send me the parts back, for a big discount in engine price.

Jake, could you provide any insight into the valve springs you used (make/model, pressure at seat and at full lift)? It would certainly help me tie up some loose ends on my engine project. Thanks!