!!!for AUTOMATIC!!! Another Engine build spec questions

[Thorkhild]

I want to build a new engine for my 1973 Auto Square

I want reliability most

want bigger than a 1641

Considering using my 2.1 vanagon crank with 90.5s or going 1776

Very not sure what cam to use. I want good power down low to match up with the auto tranny. Should i stick with stock cam? or maybe a "cheater cam"

My initial ideas

76x90.5 "b" with scat i beams
cb heads (bandito's, or the like)

intake is going to be new PDSITs

stock T3 FI Dizzy
Merged Header

[raygreenwood]

Go with a type 4. It fits great and bolts right up to the automatic. It will cool better, have more power and be more dependable than type 1 based. The bottom end of the stock type 4 is bulletproof. Build a 1.8 or 2.0 and 100+ hp is not that big of a deal. Ray

[sideshow]

While the type-4 has loads of improvement over the type-3 are you ready for a new religion?

The shock load of a torque converter is not as bad as a big clutch, so I wouldn't be in a hurry to 5 bolt you engine's drive plate.

Other than that just build a big and mild whatever.

[Thorkhild]

I didn't even think of T4. when i think about T4s, i always thinking about huge displacement expensive build motors. A "stock" 1.8 or 2.0 would be perfect.

Is it easy to get T4 manifolds for PDSITs that fit in a type 3?
Hell if i'm gunna go T4 i should go with FI too!

Anything special about T4 cases for an automatic? like in t3 cases that have a section removed from teh left side to allow room to bolt up the torque converter to the flexplate?

[raygreenwood]

The section to reach the torque converter is actually part of the tranny bell housing. The automatic tranny in the type 4 cars (411 and 412) IS the type 003 (type 3) automatic. It is identical save fore a change in teh final drive. The torque band on the type 4 is excellent with the automatic cause the final drive ratio is high.
Just a stoc k 1.7 for fuel injection put out 82 hp. If you leave the compression high and just use decent carbs , a decent cam and a decent exhaust....close to or over 100 hp is not that hard.

The carbed version of the 1.7 type 4 for the 411 put out about 76 hp at about 7.8:1 comp I think. The fuel injected 1.7 got 82 hp at 8.2:1 comp. The bus 1.7 did about 67 hp at 7.3:1.

None of them had good cams....or large enough valves or decent enough exhaust. That is the same price for upgrading since you needto renew these parts anyway.

I think the stock 1.7's had 40 pdsit carbs....but I am not sure. People have run them fine on 34 pdsit's i have read. Do some checking about type 3 conversion to type 4. It is teh easiest of them to convert.
Parts have gotten cheaper and more plentiful and higher quality. Ray

[Thorkhild]

I know there is space on the bellhousing

BUT a section is removed from the case to allow room for the flex plate bolts to attach the torque converter to the flexplate om T3 engine cases.


Wondering if T4 cases need/have teh same modification.

[raygreenwood]

Oh yes...sorry I misunderstood. There is a 25mm hole in the #3 and 4 side of the bell housing that is cast into the type 4 case. It has a small black plastic plug that plugs it off. It is simple to reach teh torque converter bolts with a 10" socket extension putting the ratchet back near the distributor. I usually then put a wrench on the other bolt 120 degrees out through the window in the torque converter housing. This effectively locks teh thing while you ratchet on the one above. Ray

[Bobnotch]

Yeah, my t-4 engine has that hole Ray mentioned. I used it originally when I put my t-4 into a 69 AT Square. I did it so I could mock up the engine hanger, and see if I needed to modify anything. I sold my Square though, so I put the engine into my 71 Roadster instead. I went with T-4 D-jet in it, as it made for a nice clean install.

The biggest challenges to a t-4 into a t-3 are the cooling boot and the engine hanger. The boot is practically unobtainium, while the hanger needs to be fabbed. I heard of a guy in South Africa that was making a conversion piece that allows the use of the t-3 cooling boot. But I haven't heard of anything in at least 4 months. I used an old badly modified t-3 engine hanger (was hacked for full flow) to build my conversion hanger. It's not pretty, but it does work. I hope this helps.

[WildBill]

Wouldn't a Type 4 flex plate also be required for this swap or will the T-3 flex plate bolt up to the T-4?


I have done some research into this conversion as I'm getting ready to put a 2.0L T-4 engine into the wifes 69 Auto Square.

Regular intake manifolds can be cut down short enough and rewelded to allow dual Weber 40's to fit under the deck lid without modifying the lid. It's just expensive.

The T4 bellows assemblies for a T4 engine (cast aluninum ) can still be found. I have located a couple in the Pensacola area.

I'll start working on the hangar assembly when the engine mods are done.

I have heard the 1.7L heads are the best to run because they have bigger valves . Just have to fly cut them to match up to the 2.0L engine
P/C. Comments?

[Bobnotch]

Wouldn't a Type 4 flex plate also be required for this swap or will the T-3 flex plate bolt up to the T-4?


I have done some research into this conversion as I'm getting ready to put a 2.0L T-4 engine into the wifes 69 Auto Square.

The T4 bellows assemblies for a T4 engine (cast aluninum ) can still be found. I have located a couple in the Pensacola area.

I'll start working on the hangar assembly when the engine mods are done.

Yes, you'll need a t-4 flex plate, as it uses 5 bolts to hold it on. These are available, as I just put a wanted ad in the Samba Classifieds t-4 section.

I was talking about the rubber boot that attaches to the plastic adapter that connects to the aluminum shroud, those pieces are getting hard to find. You need it from a T-4 Wagon. I hope this helps.

[WildBill]

Wouldn't a Type 4 flex plate also be required for this swap or will the T-3 flex plate bolt up to the T-4?


I have done some research into this conversion as I'm getting ready to put a 2.0L T-4 engine into the wifes 69 Auto Square.

The T4 bellows assemblies for a T4 engine (cast aluninum ) can still be found. I have located a couple in the Pensacola area.

I'll start working on the hangar assembly when the engine mods are done.

Yes, you'll need a t-4 flex plate, as it uses 5 bolts to hold it on. These are available, as I just put a wanted ad in the Samba Classifieds t-4 section.

I was talking about the rubber boot that attaches to the plastic adapter that connects to the aluminum shroud, those pieces are getting hard to find. You need it from a T-4 Wagon. I hope this helps.

Thanks for the reply Bob. I do have a T4 bellows and I think my source of supply has a few extra ones laying around. Think I'll get an extra for a back up.

I'll check on the T-4 5 bolt flex plates , too. I'll let you know if he has some extras.