411 Coupe, why no rear boot?

Lars S · Post by **Lars S** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:53 pm

I have often wondered why they put so much energy into making the air intake different for the two bodies of the 411 and avoiding a rear boot for the Coupe? A 1600TL-like boot in the rear had been the natural solution, the engine is designed for it. With the 411 VW took a step back to the Bugs behind back support boot, safetywise and practical a minus.
Yes, the 411 had larger boot space than any other VW car but still smaller than its competitors.

Nois-wise it should also have ben a plust to have the heavy floor and trapdoor.

The side grilles on the rear fenders would not have made the Coupe look nicer but I doubt that was the reason....so what was the reason?

/Lars

func412 · Post by **func412** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:18 am

Soon you´ll see how the side grills looks like. I´m putting them to my 412 2-door from Variant.

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:11 am

Actually, having driven them all.....i find that the two and four doors are quieter than the wagon. Also, I find working on the two and four doors a bit easier to reach everything including the bellows and seals than the wagon.....even with having to bend over into the beast. Its easier to reach injectors, ane everything around the rear Also...I would bet....that you did not see an actual rear boot because of a couple of things. (a) all of the 411/412's are "crash cell" cars in both front and rear. There were probably design stipulations .(b) Also you have to maintain access to the gas heater glow plug and coil...which I believe the wagon did not have. The shock bushing access is also behind the seat in each corner. Also....with the size of the front trunk the rear boot is not really necessary.
Lastly...the coupes do not have to have any really expensive body ducting. It is just the hood and a moulded scoop. No welded ducts. I be it was cheaper. Ray

Lars S · Post by **Lars S** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:24 am

Ray, many thanks for your answers, had not thought at all on your points.

I agree with the higher noise in the wagon (my -71 Variant was really noisy, one could hear the valves ticking) but with both the heavy Variant-floor and an upright firewall maybe the rear booted Coupe had been quiter than the Variant.

/Lars

Lars S · Post by **Lars S** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:26 am

func412,
looking forward to se it!

/Lars

vwfye · Post by **vwfye** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:22 pm

i am pleasantly impressed with how much quieter my wagon is than my t3 wagons! the access panel is more securely held in place and that wonderful carpet with the heavy batting on the rear should have been a requirement in all vw variants!

412s2 · Post by **412s2** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:49 am

I used to have a Type 3 Fastback and the rear boot was very handy, but it did make the engine a back aching pain to work on. Although access is similar on the Variant, at least you can sit inside the load bay and tinker away, great when the car is stuck outside in the rain.

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:30 am

That....is a dang good point! More than once I got caught in teh rain tinkering with my 412. You end up with half the body dry and half wet.

But having had a 411 wagon and a 412 wagon, getting to the injectors, fan, and heater ductwork is ugly. Ray

MGVWfan · Post by **MGVWfan** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:52 pm

Ectually old bean, there are two access plates under the sound deadener forward of the engine hatch on the 412 Variant, one for the glow plug, one for the ignition coil, both held on with sheet metal screws.

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:22 pm

Oops...sorry. Meant to say....Not on all of them....

. Some of the last 74's...for some ungodly reason...two that I have found....had no access plates. Thes two cars were total basket cases. I was initially just there to steal the glow plugs and coils (it was too cold to get greedy). I looked under everything for where they normally are. I finally crawled underneath and droped the whole unit with the 10mm screws. No access plates

. I knew 411's had them. My one 412 wagon (73) had them...but these two did not.
I will see if I recorded the chassis number. Ray

412s2 · Post by **412s2** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:03 pm

I know this is an old one, but I was digging through the STF archives and saw Lahti411's posting to these pictures on the German Type 4 Website...

http://www.vw411-412besitzer.de/

Is that Nordstadt I see written on the engine lid? I'm guessing this is one of Gunther Arzt's creations that Roland Kunz wrote about. Gorgeous isn't it? And so stealthy!!! As soon as I saw these pictures I thought 'that's why there is no rear boot on the fastbacks!!' For me, it's the only logical explanation, especially after reading that VW were considering a flat-6 for the Type 4.

The enthusiast in me wants to find the photographic and documentary evidence of these factory flat-6 411/412 prototypes!!!

Doesn't the flat-4 look lost in the back of the 411 notchback prototype?
http://www.type4.org/pictures/1966/ea14 ... large.html
What a waste of space!!! Why bother to make the engine so compact??

If they did engineer the 411/412 monocoque to take a flat-6 it was a mistake not to produce it as I think the lack of a rear boot severely compromised the mass market appeal of the 4 cylinder 411/412s which may have been forgiven had there been a flat-6 halo model. A 4 door fastback saloon with a Variant style rear load floor and a hatchback surely would have been more appealing, from a practical point of view, to the average family man back in the late '60s??

func412 · Post by **func412** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:42 am

func412 wrote:Soon you´ll see how the side grills looks like. I´m putting them to my 412 2-door from Variant.

I´ve forgot to show that picture. The modification:

412s2 · Post by **412s2** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:32 pm

Looks like some great work Jani! Can't wait to see the final result!

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:18 am

412s2 wrote:I know this is an old one, but I was digging through the STF archives and saw Lahti411's posting to these pictures on the German Type 4 Website...

http://www.vw411-412besitzer.de/

Is that Nordstadt I see written on the engine lid? I'm guessing this is one of Gunther Arzt's creations that Roland Kunz wrote about. Gorgeous isn't it? And so stealthy!!! As soon as I saw these pictures I thought 'that's why there is no rear boot on the fastbacks!!' For me, it's the only logical explanation, especially after reading that VW were considering a flat-6 for the Type 4.

Dang! That is übercool!

Totally agree that the huge rear engine bay of the type 4 sure does make you think there were more options in mind if the model had become more popular... I think he gas crises in the early seventies was party due to its demise as was its high selling price.
There was a 914 2.0 ltr version made and driven by VW and Gute Fahrt, but they also mentioned that one was already too costly to have it produced...

Thanks very much for the pics!

Lahti411 · Post by **Lahti411** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:44 pm

Found some cool vids from the Youtube:

The Nordstadt-Express in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Sbso0wuBlE

Testing the cabriolet hood:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLgKT59BOBA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhxxoZfdJT4