Type 3 Drum Swap

[Ghia Nut]

Ok, this has been nagging me in the back of my head, but can any one tell me if they have done a Type 3 drum swap before and what all is involved with it? I know some dead type threes around these parts and if they have those beefier drums and are worth the extra stopping power, then I want to know about this.

[Chris V]

You just need to gather the backing plates, shoes, wheel cylinders, springs, hubs (4-lug), and drums... All Type III stuff is long spline...5x205mm Type III drums have no hubs.

Early Type III stuff (5-lug) used larger wheel cylinders...same as Super fronts if I remember correctly, these wheel cylinders interchange with the later stuff as yet another upgrade. The Super Beetle front drums are the same diameter (9.8XX) and width (45mm) if you need shoes/pieces.

[Chris V]

Your trackwidth will grow too...`bout 1/2" per side...your mileage may vary...Brazilian VS German...drums/hubs.

[Marc]

The original German drums were a composite affair - a thin steel disc welded to a cast-iron ring that served as the friction surface. The replacement Brazilian-made drums now on the market are one-piece cast-iron and a bit thicker in order to retain adequate strength. IIRC the track-width increase with the OEM drums (compared to bug) was only about ¼" per side; with the Brazilian drums it'll be slightly greater, perhaps 5/16".

[Piledriver]

In this pic...


Is that a 4x114.3 (4x4.5") pattern?

I've been looking at wheels for Honda Preludes (93-96, some other years and cars) and there appear to be a very nice choice of wheels and offsets available in that bolt pattern... Typically 6.5" ET35-40. Might be useful on a Ghia or even a T3...

[helowrench]

Just grab a set of 1970 bug FRONT wheel cylinders. The difference is that the bore in them is bigger, and they will yield more stopping power for the same given pedal input. Best part is, they are an absolutely direct replacement.
Yes, brake shoe life suffers slightly, so you may change them in 5 years instead of 10

The difference is quite noticeable, and the cost is almost nothing (other than time). Also, I did not have much if any issue with rear wheel lockup.

Rob

[Piledriver]

Interesting thread here:
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 055#838055

The bigger WC might be a good option in the back with discs up front.

[Marc]

...Is that a 4x114.3 (4x4.5") pattern?...

No, it's 4¼" (108mm) - the car has Mustang II front brakes. But you could certainly modify Type III hubs/drums to 4½" if you wanted to.
4x100mm is also viable, there are a lot of stock rims with that circle too...the 4-lug "tuner" rims made for ricers have both patterns. And front 'Ghia/Type III rotors are readily available predrilled for 4x100.
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp ... D501%2D100

Just grab a set of 1970 bug FRONT wheel cylinders....Yes, brake shoe life suffers slightly, so you may change them in 5 years instead of 10...

All Beetle front W/Cs from `58-up have the same bore (22.05mm); the `65-up ones (131 611 057) have the wider slots that the shoes are less likely to hang up in so are more desirable. Many manufacturers no longer even produce the narrow-slot 113 611 057B, since the 131 611 057 can be used on `58-`64 fronts too.
It is a big step up - the piston area is almost 60% greater than with the original `68-up 17.46mm rear wheel cylinder. I've had good results using them with semi-metallic linings - or for street use, semi-mets at the forward position and organics at the rear.

[helowrench]

If all you need is the 4X108 pattern, I am almost certain a 924 rear drum will bolt up and already has the 4X108 pattern factory.

Marc, I had the 22.05's on my ghia , and they worked great with only slight impending rear lock up under max braking.
Now (through a long story) I have the 17.46's and really do not like it.
weaker braking and the fronts are having to work much harder (much more noticeable dive).

Rob

[Marc]

If all you need is the 4X108 pattern, I am almost certain a 924 rear drum will bolt up and already has the 4X108 pattern factory...

Yes, they're identical in all other dimensions to a standard `68-up Beetle rear drum. For the race car I felt that Type III brakes were needed, though.
Oh, and if you can't find any good used ones, the 477 501 615A Porsche drums are going to set you back at by least $150 each.

[Ghia Nut]

So the stock type III drums come in 4x100 bolt pattern?

And my biggest question is if the track width increase will cause my 205/50s in the back to rub

[helowrench]

stock T3 drums come in 4X130

and

depends on what rim

Rob

[Marc]

So the stock type III drums come in 4x100 bolt pattern?

I don't know where you could've possibly inferred that from anything yet stated in this thread. They're 4x130, same as Type I - but they can be redrilled/studded to any of several other 4- or 5-lug bolt patterns.

And my biggest question is if the track width increase will cause my 205/50s in the back to rub

It might - how much clearance between outer sidewall and fender do you have now? If it's less than ¼" or so, you'd have a problem (assuming you're using the same width/offset rims). The OEM German steel drum gives a hair less track-width increase than the thicker cast-iron replacement, too.

[slowtwitch]

I just installed a set of type 3 brakes on my 57 (the chassis is actually from a 69, IRS). The drums are from Brazil. They did widen the stance, by about 1/2"..Here are a couple of pics. the tires are 195x60 on 15inch rims.






pete

[Ghia Nut]

I thought all VW four lugs from 67 on were 4x100... am I wrong?

Im running TRUE Porsche 2.0l wheels. I couldnt tell you how close I was running to the fender as I dont know where to measure it from, and I have some camber in the back.