Have to build an engine (finally)

51MAN · Post by **51MAN** » Tue May 26, 2009 5:18 am

Ok... more daft questions... sorry, need some refreshing here...

Going to build the 2.1 (may go 2.2 if I have time and can get the piston and barrel kit), but has to be on a budget and needs to last...
basically stock, with a few tweaks..
rods... resize and big block chevy bolts, match etc..
Cam... may have to go stock 2.1... what lifters should I use? use whatever came out... "new" replacement hydro's seem to be poor quality... so should I use reground originals (where??) or get an alternative cam and lifter combo... (eg: web 218/119, or a C25 + solid TIVlifters, as per marco's comments a while ago)
Or should I do a type 1 conversion on the lifter bores?

Valves... new VW ones or an alternative product?? (AMC heads.. I d have some VW heads I could use...)

I have a set of "low bugget" 1.4 rockers... thoughts?

fastback · Post by **fastback** » Tue May 26, 2009 9:56 am

how about these 2 hydro cams.??
http://cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=59

with some ratio rockers u can obtain ok lift.
thenu can also use solid type4 lube a lobes. and do not need the type 1 conversion

51MAN · Post by **51MAN** » Tue May 26, 2009 12:38 pm

Yeah... I could. with hydro lifters.. are the lube a lobes hydraulic? any euro suppliers??? lub a lobes not listed...
Oh, it says use with "hi rev hydraulics"... but not listed on the site....

Slightly concerned about matching parts from different suppliers... I'd rather not have to take it apart in 5000 miles...

not interested in 6k+ rpm... 5.5k will be enough...

fastback · Post by **fastback** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:44 pm

the thought was that the CB cams are designed for the small diameter lifters.
i have bought the Type4 lube a lobes locally in Norway

BTW

these are goody lifters. let's u choose ALOT more cams for the WBX and Type4

Retail around 250US

51MAN · Post by **51MAN** » Wed May 27, 2009 1:13 am

Yeah, the CB's are for small diameter lifters, but only hydraulics... Solids wont work on them.. I am stuggling to find any quality hydraulic lifters....

those lube a lobes would work on a "solid" cam... so have a wider choice... (still favour the 218/119)

I have some used VW lifters... but they all need refacing, with the correct convex... cant find what spec that should be (different for each cam manufacturer!!!) let alone a co in the UK that can do it.....

fastback · Post by **fastback** » Wed May 27, 2009 11:20 am

why wont' solid work on them?
i have the same combo in one of my engines. "hydrocam" and the solid luba a lobes.
ran it for a short summer season and the lifter/cam looked perfect.

tencentlife · Post by **tencentlife** » Thu May 28, 2009 8:10 am

Of course you can run plain lifters on a hydro cam. The other way around is where you might have problems, but even some plain-grind cams support hydro lifters just fine. The CB 2280 works as well or better with hydros as a cam intended for them does. If your engine is for a heavy van, this cam is a real treat, by the way.

I don't know where this mythical "correct convex" comes from either; a standard convex regrind will work on any cam out there. The thing you need to watch for, obviously, is edge interference when mixing and matching small-face lifters to cams not specifically intended for them; some cams will work, some won't, shorter-duration/moderate-lift sticks are more likely to work out OK. You just have to mock it up and take a close look at their interaction.

I do like those T4 big-face lifters, fastback; any idea where I can order them from?

fastback · Post by **fastback** » Thu May 28, 2009 3:45 pm

i get the lifters localy in Norway
check out MAssive Type4 or EMW??
i think one of those has the same type

51MAN · Post by **51MAN** » Fri May 29, 2009 2:27 am

"Correct convex"....... well if I could find someone to grind them I need to know what the correct convex should be... if they just grind them... they might be too flat or convex...

Jake (massive) doesnt do lifters seperately... designed to work with his cam specs...

EMW? never heard of them... but will have a look...

sideshow · Post by **sideshow** » Fri May 29, 2009 6:50 am

tencentlife wrote:...do like those T4 big-face lifters...

EMW has them, you will have to clearance for the heads

51MAN · Post by **51MAN** » Fri May 29, 2009 2:05 pm

ah......... EMW euopean motor works.....

Cant see them on there website...........

tencentlife · Post by **tencentlife** » Sun May 31, 2009 7:02 am

sideshow wrote:
tencentlife wrote:...do like those T4 big-face lifters...
EMW has them, you will have to clearance for the heads

Yeah, I know the lifter bosses would have to be spot-faced down for the heads. But at least no bushings are required. Much cheaper and easier job. Opens up the whole world of Type1 performance cams for the wbx.

Si, just take the lifters to any competent engine machinist; he'll know what to do. If you have any doubt take your cam with you so he can mike the top of the lobe bias. No one in their right mind would grind a lifter flat. They've all worked the same since I-don't-know-when. I get mine reground by an old-timey machinist (they're the best ones) and he doesn't even ask what they'll be run on. There's just the slightest crown on the face, that's all they need. Start with a set you know already works OK, because you'll be using the same internals. After the machining you need to disassemble and clean out and prefill them, not mixing up any of the parts.

51MAN · Post by **51MAN** » Sun May 31, 2009 3:38 pm

Cheers Chris
Yeah... going on a mission tomorrow (monday) seeming as I dont have a job now....

I have found a old BMW bike specialist machine shop, I am hoping he's not too busy and fancies lending a hand to do some work on my bits

... I have another place to try...

Trouble is.. good old helpfull and capable machine shops are in short supply... we are even more of a throw away nation (and it pains me...) so the guys that would/could do it have eithe retired coz nobody cared/wanted it or "pegged" it......

farmer · Post by **farmer** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:47 am

Hello.
A little late to chime in. But one thing I do not like with those big foot type 4 lifters is that they weigh way over 100 grams, which will require even more spring pressure.
I was the person recommending the Web 218/119 along with a progressive carb. Since then I have tried it myself. - And I have to say that there was an idle problem. The 218 simply has too much overlap to go for a decent idle. But the mid rangepower was VERY nice. It was later converted to factory fuel injection and we had a local F.I. master to remap the ECU. He installed jets one notch up from stock MV. Now it runs perfect 134 hp @ 5800 and 201 nm torque. On a MW engine it most likely would not produce more than roughly 185 Nm
T
PS. If it is a work truck you would most likely feel it is too much due to the way it pulls. then it most likely would be a better choice to go with tencents solution with the CB 2280 and hydro lifters.
But its awesome on the freeway.

51MAN · Post by **51MAN** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:40 am

Hi
Not been on for a while..
Project on hold as still no work... things are getting very difficult now...

Cheers Farmer.. Mmm.. poor idle... but thats a good number from Fi.. is that with DJ pistons?

Yeah.. the CB cam looks to be an ideal solution..