Wasser boxer versus new type 1 cases with 4 inch bore.

[3literboy]

I just completed my wasser boxer. Bugpack crank type 4 mains flange crank etc. with split bearing. Dont like split bearing. If I do a 3 liter again, I will use a new aluminum case with 4 inch bore. By the time it is all said and done, the oxyboxer costs way to much and takes way to many custom issues. It has no oil cooler mount, and no way to install a deep sump. The next motor will be from a type 1 case with 4 inch bore and wedgemated crank, all type 1 bearings, deep sump, etc. I do like my oxyboxer, but it simply takes to much B.Ss.

Rimco lifter bores
rimco linebore
machine case for juggs
special bearings
special deep sump
special oil filter machining
special dry sump
special heads

Do an all type 1 motor and just turbo it with off the shelf parts


The wasser boxer is not worth it

If you do decide to do one use a type 1 wedgemated crank and .060 over type 1 rear bearing with stock 2.1 liter bearings
The split bearing for all type 4 mains is a hassle and loses oil pressure when it heats up. I wouldnt go larger than 86mm stroke.

Centuri sells a crank and rod stroker kit for $300. also use 40 horse 10mm studs.

Also, if you go to 2800cc, 48 idas and 52 idas are to small. Its just a dead end deal for a lot more money than a type 1 case and heads and turbo.

[Chris V]

Why have a deep sump and a dry sump

[Stripped66]

It has no oil cooler mount, and no way to install a deep sump.

"No way to..." is much different than "I wasn't willing to pay for...", and the fact is, Rocky Jennings could've provided both for you. I happen to have one of his oil cooler mounts sitting in my basement; ran a Type 1 oil cooler in the Type 1 doghouse, worked perfect.

Rimco lifter bores
rimco linebore
machine case for juggs
special bearings
special deep sump
special oil filter machining
special dry sump
special heads

Only the lifter bores and deep sump modifications are unique to the wasserboxer conversion. You'd have to perform similar modifications with a Type 1 case trying to run 4" bore and a flanged crank with the split bearings you loathe (actually more...you'd need to weld up and relocate an oil gallery on the Type 1 case, too ). The dry sump was your choice and the oil-filter machining was unnecessary.

Centuri sells a crank and rod stroker kit for $300.

Any objectivity you may have had about the "worth" of the wasserboxer conversion was nullified by this statement. Seriously; it's like listening to somebody whine about the cost of Chimay and in the same breath recommend Miller Lite.

[fastback]

do you need more that the ~4 litres of oil that the WBX_/oxy takes?
u could go easy way of adding a sandwich adapter for a oilcooler ?

[buildabiggerboxer]

Its a shame your first post on here was so unhappy, Get some pics up so we can advise you...

[3literboy]

My motor is already built and on the track. Had I done it all over, I would have just done what Jim Lutz did. Stock 2.1 liter vanagon bearings with a type 1 oversize rear main and wedgemated type 1 crank. As far as oiling, I did the CB dry sump pump and lines and run 8 quarts of 20w50 synthetic 1500ppm ZDDP. I will do an external oul filter with Jaycee external 80 psi oil pressuer regulator. There is no need for any advice!!!! I could have done the BMW bearing with center thrust areas however. As it is though, the next motor will be based on a DRD 3 liter block. It has a .200 cam drop, and a built in 4 quart deep sump. This means you can run a 95mm crank without clearancing the cam. I thought the autocraft heads would fill up with oil after a pass with the CB 2stage pump, but after a few minutes at idle, the tank fills back up. I started building this motor in 2001. I had all the info I needed back then. So, like I said, if I build another 2.1 lter block it will have a 4340 type 1 crank wedgemated with a rea main seal adapter ring. Lets see what that would be:

case machining for 4 inch bore $150
RIMCO lifter bores $150

82 Crank and H beam rods $325 shipped

40 horses head studs ?

Piston kit $400

4 inch bore Comp eliminators $800

CB dry sump kit


I like the idea of staying with the 2.1 liter metal backed vanagon bearings and a $20 oversized rear main and conventional bug shims!

I thought about the center thrust bearing for $400 but, after awhile, it gets to be a drag. $500 for a deep sump, $350 for oil cooler mount, $1000 prep machining, special$100 dollar bearings, and the list goes on and on, and on and on


The next race motor I build will be off of this block

http://www.drdracingheads.com/catalog/p ... cts_id=220

It has a .200 cam drop so you dont have to clearance the cam for an 88 stroke.

How about a 88mm by 106mm turbo on 12 pounds of boost and roller lifters, shift at 7000 rpms, 80 psi oil pressure and a cooling system?????
The only real specialty item is scat split bearings

Just converting a wasser boxer case to type 4 mains and welding up the seal area for a Bugpack flanged seal is $300


I believe there is a fella in Huntington Beach that converts the CB case to 4 inch bore, " with case" for a littte over $800

[3literboy]

But then again, instead of spending $2k on a vanagon case, build an all type 1 2387 with CB 044 ported heads and put an off the shelf turbo on it. There still are late model AS41 engines complete out there for a core, and very inexpensive type 1 C/m crank and rods. I turbo system with a 700 cfm carb, might cost $1500 bucks and do a 10.20 in a full pan. Once you go past a certain cylinder volume, a weber 48 IDA or 52IDA is not enough carb. With a cylinder volume of 735cc, only the Berg 58mm or 62 terminators will let the motor twist to 8 grand. They are at least $2k there. Then when you go past 7500 rpm, any stroke above 84mm stresses the rod bolts out the ass. A smaller displacement turbo motor that shifts at 7000 rpm will last a hell of alot longer than a 8500 rpm wasser boxer. Plus there is no need for huge valve springs, roller lifters, Rockershaft conversion, all the machining, $2500 carbs, welded manifolds, and on and on and on. Hopefully CB will come out with a 4 inch bore case with a 1 inch raised deck and 4 mm cam drop, and Comp eliminators and 044s with a 4 inch bore. Once the type 1 head has a 4 inch bore, then a 2800cc type 1 with a conventional off the shelf turbo setup will be the motor of choice. We are talking 9.50 quarter miles at 150 all day long. As it is, I am going back to all type 1 and 043 castings and a carbide cutters for heads> I have a portatool line bore bar and old school cylinder cutters. I will base all my race motors on junkyard AS41s, and welded up oldschool type 1 stuff. I will spend the money on a turbo set up with a conventioanl dog house cooler......................................................................heee hee heee

[3literboy]

Lastly,

My 2854 cc wasser boxer is getting a turbo next year. I will be at Woodburn next week and will probably only run an 11.50 in a very heavy fullpan with heavy cage.Next year, I convert the 2 inch Als merged header to a turbo header. I will run a huge T4 turbo with custom intake and a Big 4 barrel. I will back off on the spring rate or use old k800 sprinsg and a DRD 112 lobe center turbo grind. The motor will be rev limited to 7200 RPM and have a cooling system. I wont have to worry about broken rod bolts or replacing rod bearings every year either. Show up make 4 or 5 passes on the Mendeola and put it away for the next season. Who cares if it only does a 10.20 at 145........................................................................................................................ hee hee hee

[Stripped66]

Well, if you do happen to run a time, Steve, be sure to post it up.

[jackstraw]

Gotta admire a man who stands up for what he believes. Go, man, go.
There is no denying the lower cost of T1 components.
Who are you. Show yourself.

[3literboy]

I just raced at Portland International raceway. I am using E85 ethanol blend. I just installed a wideband O2 sensor and went from a 2.30mm main and a 1mm idle jet on 45.5 venturis to a 2.00mm main and .80mm idle jet. I lost at least .7 seconds. The AFR stated 13 to 1 in 4th WOT etc. I really noticed the drop in power shifting from 1st to second and third. I think I will go back to my first dead wreckening jet sizes.

4.4 times 45.5 venturi equals 200 times 1.16 equals 2.32mm

I was running rich with a 1mm idle jet. I could get a 10 to 1 ratio with .8mm idle jets and 2 turns on the wideband

Anyways I got kicked off the track for 104.6 DBs I have an Als header with 2 inch runners. My last exhaust was a 13/4 with single chamber flow master. I still have the flowmaster, I just need to cut it off, grind on it, and weld it to the stinger. Another scenario is cut collector flange back to a 4 inch diameter and run a 4 inch or 3.5 inch cherry bomb.

Does anyone have suggestions on cutting 3 DBs off? Should I use a single chamber flowmaster? When I went from the 1 and 3/4 with muffler to the 2 inch I picked up a full .3 seconds in the quarter. I also just added auto craft 1.5 rockers and increased the lift by .050 .430 time 1.52 times equal 6.53 lift. I really noticed the lean condition and bogging when I added the .050 in lift and leaned it out.

I wonder if 52IDAs with 48mm venturis would be much better?

What say yee!!!!!!!?????????

[3literboy]

Oh and I really need to put a jaycee external oil pressure regulator and remote oil filter set up. I have to idle at 2 grand to get 25 pounds of oil pressure coming back to the pits. I can get 80 pounds at 7000 even when the oil is 180. It has a Rimoc line bore and a Scat split bearing so I do not think it is bearing clearance. I dont want to butch the cam with K800s and 5 pounds of oil pressure. What say yee?????

[3literboy]

I am running the stock filter setup with a BMW 325 filter..............................

Any tips on increasing oil pressure at idle? I stretched the stock spring and that helped. I thought of putting a different piston in it. The original piston has the big groove below the top of the piston. A solid type one oil piston might work better. Its either that or put a higher strength spring in it. Then again, I could detail the oil pump fitting I/D with a die grinder and open the material up? What say any of you Aircooled technicians????????

[Stripped66]

I have to idle at 2 grand to get 25 pounds of oil pressure coming back to the pits.

You need to pull that POS CB dry-sump pump out and run a REAL dry sump pump.
The pressure stage of your CB pump is 21mm and it has small funky ports to route the oil between the bodies of the scavenge and suction stage. It's really no different than if you were running a 21mm stock oil pump.

Garbage in, garbage out; what did you expect?

[3literboy]

Who has a good stage pump