Teflon buttons
- harryset
- Posts: 360
- Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:16 pm
Teflon buttons
Any opinion on the use of teflon buttons vs snap rings for retaining the wrist pins? I've used them on my last three rebuilds, because they were trick, way back when.
'72 Standard
"I am the proud owner of a "Hoover Bit".
185 60's, EMPI disc kit, EMPI 2 1/2" dropped spindles on the front.
185 65's and stock binders on the back.
SecondSkin - Damplifier Pro and Luxury Liner Pro for sound control.
"I am the proud owner of a "Hoover Bit".
185 60's, EMPI disc kit, EMPI 2 1/2" dropped spindles on the front.
185 65's and stock binders on the back.
SecondSkin - Damplifier Pro and Luxury Liner Pro for sound control.
- Dale M.
- Posts: 1673
- Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:09 am
Re: Teflon buttons
I like them.... Keeps the "snap" ring (that is not there) from popping out and scoring cylinder wall....
Dale
Dale
"Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson
1970 "Kellison Sand Piper Roadster"
1970 "Kellison Sand Piper Roadster"
- sideshow
- Posts: 3428
- Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:00 am
Re: Teflon buttons
Buttons scare me, I would rather have rods that run true than have a button mask the signs something out of wack.
Stop clips weight less, trap less oil, don't wear groove in the side of the cylinder.
Stop clips weight less, trap less oil, don't wear groove in the side of the cylinder.
Yeah some may call it overkill, but you can't have too much overkill.
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- Posts: 3011
- Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 1:01 am
Re: Teflon buttons
unconfirmed rumors of buttons wearing and scuffing cylinder walls.
I use spiral locks. You know, the kind that are insanely hard to take out when you are TRYING to.
I use spiral locks. You know, the kind that are insanely hard to take out when you are TRYING to.
- Marc
- Moderator
- Posts: 23741
- Joined: Thu May 23, 2002 12:01 am
Re: Teflon buttons
A motor built right, with a stiff enough crank to resist flexing and true rods, should never need buttons. The liabilities sideshow pointed out are real - I can attest to that based upon experience with low-budget race motors that were flogged beyond their capacity - but they're still preferable to the damage incurred when a clip fails. For a sensible combination that's at little risk of clip failure I'd go with the stock clips (or Spirollox if the application warranted the hassle) but if you're building a grenade the buttons have their place. One thing to look out for is too much wristpin endplay - if there's even a little to start with, they'll beat themselves in with high-RPM abuse. They should be tight enough on initial asembly that you can just rotate the wristpin - any looser and you should step up to longer ones, even if that means having to spend lots of elbow grease taking their length down on sandpaper 'til they just fit.
Long story short, don't use 'em unless you've got a damn good reason/excuse to.
Long story short, don't use 'em unless you've got a damn good reason/excuse to.
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- Posts: 7087
- Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2001 1:01 am
Re: Teflon buttons
Wuss!sideshow wrote:Buttons scare me,
Truesideshow wrote:Stop clips weight less,
Not if you drill holes in them like everyone does.sideshow wrote: trap less oil,
Any wear from a teflon button comes from grit in your engine getting trapped or imbedded in the teflon. A proper filter, changed often prevents this. In this case, teflon isn't the cause.sideshow wrote: don't wear groove in the side of the cylinder.
- Turbo_Manx_Maniac
- Posts: 3308
- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:32 pm
Re: Teflon buttons
Buttons weighs 9 times what a snap ring weighs. 1 gram vs 9, times eight buttons = 64 grams added to the ricprocating weight.
Who's really had a snap ring come out and do damage?
Who's really had a snap ring come out and do damage?
I accidentally Googled my Twitter. (And I liked it)
- Glenn
- Posts: 5108
- Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2001 12:01 am
Re: Teflon buttons
I had a friend who's engine overheated. When I tore it down one of the stock wire snap rings was not to be found and the wrist pin wore a groove in the cylinder wall.Turbo_Manx_Maniac wrote:Who's really had a snap ring come out and do damage?
Just make sure you spin them to make sure they are seated and you'll never have a problem.
- Turbo_Manx_Maniac
- Posts: 3308
- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:32 pm
Re: Teflon buttons
Do you think the engine was assembled without the snap ring? Good point on spinning them, good habit to catch issues.Glenn wrote:I had a friend who's engine overheated. When I tore it down one of the stock wire snap rings was not to be found and the wrist pin wore a groove in the cylinder wall.Turbo_Manx_Maniac wrote:Who's really had a snap ring come out and do damage?
Just make sure you spin them to make sure they are seated and you'll never have a problem.
I accidentally Googled my Twitter. (And I liked it)
- Glenn
- Posts: 5108
- Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2001 12:01 am
Re: Teflon buttons
Can't say, but I never found it.Turbo_Manx_Maniac wrote:Do you think the engine was assembled without the snap ring?
Besides the cylinder and piston being dead, the rod and crank were blue from being overheated.
Yup... its a sure way to see if they are correctly seated.Turbo_Manx_Maniac wrote:Good point on spinning them, good habit to catch issues.
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- Posts: 7087
- Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2001 1:01 am
Re: Teflon buttons
They don't weigh 9g when you drill holes in them.Turbo_Manx_Maniac wrote:Buttons weighs 9 times what a snap ring weighs. 1 gram vs 9, times eight buttons = 64 grams added to the ricprocating weight.
Either way, 9g on top of the mass of the piston and wrist pin amounts to 2 tenths of F-all.
I had a clip come out of a NPR piston. Ground out a big groove in the cylinder, clip was pulverized and never found. No, I didn't forget to put it in.Turbo_Manx_Maniac wrote:Who's really had a snap ring come out and do damage?
- Turbo_Manx_Maniac
- Posts: 3308
- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:32 pm
Re: Teflon buttons
Technically it's 18 grams, but who's counting...Bruce2 wrote:They don't weigh 9g when you drill holes in them.Turbo_Manx_Maniac wrote:Buttons weighs 9 times what a snap ring weighs. 1 gram vs 9, times eight buttons = 64 grams added to the ricprocating weight.
Either way, 9g on top of the mass of the piston and wrist pin amounts to 2 tenths of F-all.
I had a clip come out of a NPR piston. Ground out a big groove in the cylinder, clip was pulverized and never found. No, I didn't forget to put it in.Turbo_Manx_Maniac wrote:Who's really had a snap ring come out and do damage?
In any case, I've never heard of a clip failing other than on the internet. Gotta imagine it's pretty rare and can be attributed to something other than the clip actually failing. BTW, I have always used the buttons, have them in both motors now, never a problem.
I accidentally Googled my Twitter. (And I liked it)
- perrib
- Posts: 1891
- Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:00 pm
Re: Teflon buttons
A snap ring makes a mess of the cylinder wall when it pops out. I have cylinders that have 40k miles with no wear from the teflon buttons.
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- Posts: 7087
- Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2001 1:01 am
Re: Teflon buttons
Since I told you about a clip falling out via the internet, does that mean you don't believe it happened?Turbo_Manx_Maniac wrote: I've never heard of a clip failing other than on the internet.
- turboblue
- Posts: 3969
- Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2003 12:01 am
Re: Teflon buttons
Turbo_Manx_Maniac wrote:Who's really had a snap ring come out and do damage?
This engine was together for about a year then decided to push out a snap ring.
Customer had mail ordered it from a west coast "builder".