1967 Bug Help Hooking up Hazard Flasher Switch - PLEASE HELP

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kmm
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1967 Bug Help Hooking up Hazard Flasher Switch - PLEASE HELP

Post by kmm » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:31 pm

So I bought a 1967 VW Bug for my daughter and it didn't have an Emergency flasher switch (just a hole in the dash). So I bought one (an orig) with 2 prongs on the back. According to the wiring diagram the "S" on the switch(brown 1.0 wire) goes to the "S" on the relay box and the "K" on the switch (blue 0.5 wire) goes to the "49a" on the relay box.

But my problem is this.....
The relay box that is in the car is different from the wiring diagram. Mine has 9 prongs where as the diagram shows 7. Also mine has a rectangle blue box attached to it (I don't know or understand what this is box is for)

My question is this.....
#1) If I bought a new or used 7 prong box would it be an easy conversion?
If yes..... should I buy a new box or used? If used what year should I get it from?
If no....... then do you know if it would be expensive to have a VW shop do it?

Here are the numbers off of the back of the relay box thats in it now. NOTE: I can not find any numbers on the blue box. Its really throwing me off!!!!!!
211 953 227
BGR200618 12v
BLINKGEBER 2x21W
WARNRELAIS 4x21W
GERMANY

Here is how its currently set up.....
-S 54 15 VBL (row 1)
VL VR 54f (row 2)
49a 30 (row 3)

(Row 1)
-S = NOTHING
54 = NOTHING
15 = 2 WIRES (ONE THIN RED, ONE THICK RED)
KBL = NOTHING

(Row 2)
VL = 1 WIRE (BLACK WITH GREEN STRIPS)
VR = 1 WIRE (BLACK WITH WHITE STRIPS)
54f = NOTHING

(Row 3)
49a = 2 WIRES (ONE BLACK WITH YELLOW STRIPS, ONE BROWN THAT GOES TO A CONECTOR THAT DOWN
30 = NOTHING SIZES THE WIRE THEN GOES INTO THE BLUE BOX AND
THE WIRE IS MARKED "IN")


I really hope someone is able to help or give me some advise. I am needing to get it street legal soon to register it with DMV before school starts in August because it will be her every day driver to and from school.

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Marc
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Re: 1967 Bug Help Hooking up Hazard Flasher Switch - PLEASE

Post by Marc » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:23 am

9-prong (as used in Bus): http://www.type2.com/library/electris/v ... g-fig1.png

The 7-prong (as used in the Beetle) lacks terminals 54 and 54f; Buses needed those because they have a more complicated turnsignal switch since their brake lamps use the same filaments as the turnsignals. You can use a 9-prong flasher in a Beetle, just leave 54 and 54f vacant.
http://www.vintagebus.com/wiring/bug-66+67.jpg

I'm drawing a blank on your "blue box". Sometimes when the hazard relay fails a simple flasher gets rigged in to make the turnsignals functional - if that's what it is, there's probably little hope of getting the hazards to work without another relay. Hard part is finding a good used one. There is an updated replacement part available:
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp ... %2D227%2DB
and it's also possible to fabricate your own. Read all about it here: http://www.type2.com/library/electris/vw-9prong.html (for a Beetle it takes one less relay since you don't have 54 and 54f)

Personally I've never liked the early hazard-flasher system, it seems stupid to me to have all the complexity of the 4-way system built into a component that gets used dozens of times a day. In later years VW changed to a system that uses a simple flasher and a complex hazard switch, a much better solution. But the late hazard switch needs a bigger hole in the dash, and it's somewhat sacrilegious to butcher a `67.
`69/`70 uses a 4-prong flasher, `71-up uses a 3-prong, but they're essentially the same otherwise. If you decide to go that route, easiest way is to grab the hazard switch & flasher and all related wiring/connectors from a junkyard car (`69-up Standard or `71/`72 Super).

kmm
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Re: 1967 Bug Help Hooking up Hazard Flasher Switch - PLEASE

Post by kmm » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:53 am

OHHHH OK. So I think Im getting it. Since we bought the bug and it had no Hazard switch at all, (Just a Hole in the dash) then the "Blue Box" was used to take the place of the Hazard switch because.....

There's a brown wire coming out of 49a that then goes to a wire connector that has a smaller wire coming out of it and then goes into the "blue box" and is labled "In". Coming out of the "Blue Box" and labled "Out" is the same small wire that then goes to the "turn signal" light in the Speedo, labled "K3" on my wiring diagram!!!!!!!

So in essents I should be good if I bypass or remove the "blue box" and hook everything up according to the wiring diagram but hook it all up to the 9 prong box I already have. I'd just avoiding using the 54 and 54f like you had mentioned.... Right?

Just a few more questions....
Wy would my red wires be hooked up to 15 and not 30?
Also is the "-S" on the 9 prong box the same as "S" on my 7 prong box diagram?
Lastly my diagram says to hook up the "K" wire from the Hazard switch to the "B1" on the 7 prong box, since there isn't a "B1" on the 9 prong box where do I hook it up to on the 9 prong relay box?

I sincerley appriciate your help........ Im almost there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:

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Marc
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Re: 1967 Bug Help Hooking up Hazard Flasher Switch - PLEASE

Post by Marc » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:57 am

kmm wrote:...my diagram says to hook up the "K" wire from the Hazard switch to the "B1" on the 7 prong box, since there isn't a "B1" on the 9 prong box where do I hook it up to on the 9 prong relay box?...
That's incorrect. "K" on the hazard switch connects to 49a on the relay, where it receives flasher output power...with the hazard knob "in" the lamp in the knob is isolated, so it doesn't come on with the t'signals in normal mode.
The t'signal indicator lamp in the speedo connects to KBl (that's an L, not a 1) or Bl - same terminal, may have either marking. Not uncommon for the KBl/Bl function to go bad in an otherwise-good relay, in which case you may piggyback the wire onto 49a with the other two - this makes the speedo indicator lamp work, although in alternation rather than in unison with the external lamps.
S (or -S) is the control wire which the hazard switch grounds to place the relay in hazard mode.

15 is ignition-switched power for the flasher when in normal mode.
30 is constant power for the flasher when in hazard mode.
The relay isolates the two - if it didn't the ignition would be on at all times (note that it's incredibly easy to hotwire a `67 by simply connecting those two wires together).

kmm
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Re: 1967 Bug Help Hooking up Hazard Flasher Switch - PLEASE

Post by kmm » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:34 pm

Again I truely appriciate your help. I think I have it now. I'm going to hook everything up to the 9 prong and remove the blue box. If the KB1 isn't working then I'll hook the turn signal wire for the speedo to 49a like you said.

WISH ME LUCK. THANKS AGAIN

kmm
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Re: 1967 Bug Help Hooking up Hazard Flasher Switch - PLEASE

Post by kmm » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:54 pm

OK so somethings not right. :? I did nothing with 15 and 30. The way it sits right know is that 15 has 2 red wires and 30 has nothing. My wiring diagram shows it different. 15 should have black wires and 30 should have the red wires. Do I set it up like the diagram says to? or Leave it? :?

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Marc
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Re: 1967 Bug Help Hooking up Hazard Flasher Switch - PLEASE

Post by Marc » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:17 am

I'd start with wiring it per the diagram. Apparently the PO thought it necessary to tamper with things, we'll never know why until you give it a chance hooked up the way it should be. Don't trust wire colors 100% - there's always the possibility they've been replaced for some reason, using the incorrect color. Trace any wire in question back to see if the other end is connected where it's expected.
http://www.vintagebus.com/wiring/bug-66+67.jpg

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Dale M.
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Re: 1967 Bug Help Hooking up Hazard Flasher Switch - PLEASE

Post by Dale M. » Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:06 am

kmm wrote:OK so somethings not right. :? I did nothing with 15 and 30. The way it sits right know is that 15 has 2 red wires and 30 has nothing. My wiring diagram shows it different. 15 should have black wires and 30 should have the red wires. Do I set it up like the diagram says to? or Leave it? :?
Typically terminal 30 is always direct 12 volts supply ( source voltage) and should always have "power" on it or else other functions will not work....

Terminal 15 is usually switch controlled (usually Ignition switch) power for "downstream" devices...

http://www.e38.org/understanding%20euro ... agrams.pdf

or....

http://www.mydune-buggy.com/home/dl_fil ... ations.pdf

Dale
"Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson
1970 "Kellison Sand Piper Roadster"

Clonebug
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Re: 1967 Bug Help Hooking up Hazard Flasher Switch - PLEASE

Post by Clonebug » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:47 pm

I wired my 9 prong bus box to my 67 wiring system.
I used an article I found on the web and printed out.
Here are the wiring instructions I have.

15 Black Hot with key on
30 Red Hot at all times ( this allows the Emergency flashers to work without the key on)
KB1 Blue/white Speedo turn indicator light
54 Blk/red(bus) Input from brake light switch ( not used in car)
VR Blk/Grn Right front turn light
VL Blk/White Left Front turn light
49a Blk/grn/white To turn signal switch input
54f Red/Purple(bus) Brake light output to turn switch (Not used on car)
-S Brown Hazard switch input
31 Brown Ground (Separate wire, not a terminal)

I used a bus wiring diagram to make it work and looked at a 66-67 bug wiring diagram and cross referenced everything to get a usable setup.
Just trace the wires and look at the color codes to natch it all up.... it does work. I have had mine working for 6 yrs. now.

It has been quite a while since I looked at the wiring but if you have questions I can pull my hood and check it all out for you.

Clonebug

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