ShopTalk Forums | Aircooled VW Tech & Restoration Help

Hi Boys and Girls
My name is Mike, I consider myself an old car guy, new to VWs but a long time Audi fan/owner. My retirement project is a '68 Ghia mid engine VR6 Turbo.

Some Background - I've always be interested in cars. The list of favourite cars I've owned include '68 Camaro RS/SS 396 4spd coupe, '68 Camaro convert. 350 4spd – 400hp think IMSA, '76 Alfa Romeo 2ltr FI, '84 Audi 400GT, '87 944 Porsche, '94 BMW 525 5spd M50, '94 Audi URS4 375-400Hp. I did a lot of the work on most of these. The family has owned 13 Audis so we're VW fans by default.

Concept - I turn 60 on my next birthday, this will very likely be my last project/interesting car. So this is kind of an automotive bucket list for me. A mid engine located front wheel drive package has always interested me – Lancia Stratos, Honda NSX, Toyota MR2 etc.
High power to weight ratio – Not necessarily a sports car but not necessarily a hot rod either - Cool -Old but not vintage - Not a ten year restoration project - Good handling - very inexpensive build - daily driver - plentiful original production - cheap parts big after market supply and following - I want to be able to repair it myself - and finally a design challenge.

So I started looking and its amazing how quickly things got narrowed down based on the check list. Anyway to make a long story short a Karmann Ghia ticked most of the boxes and I really liked they way they looked lowered and slightly cosmetically modified, the basic lines are just beautiful. Its a 1953 Italian designed sports car hand built in Germany (almost half a million produced) using many of the components from the beetle – production in the millions with as strong an aftermarket and following as you're likely to find.

I had a chat with my mechanics and suggested that I was going to try and put a turbo charged 2 ltr 16valve in the back seat of a Ghia and they said why not a VR6? After a little research this started making a lot of sense 40% more cubes (there's no replacement for displacement) and lots of turbo parts and tech advice available. I bought a '68 KG project which is basically 1.75 cars (lots of extra parts) for $2000. Bought a low mileage VR6 12 valve complete with trans, harness and ECU for $800. That was Mar 2013, this pic is the first I took, I had already stripped the interior, engine/ trans and doors and trunk lids.

Sorry for the long post, I will be more brief in future posts. Look forward to your comments and help.

Very cool! I really wanted to do mid-engine as well but wasn't quite sure how I was going to tackle all of the work, so I gave in to keeping my project a rear engine setup. Interested to hear more details about how you plan to tackle it. Front radiator? Custom engine/transmission brackets? Suspension? ECU?

-Kyle

There is a forum member here that has an early bug and he put the whole front suspension from a 1.8T (something model) into the rear of his bug. Strut towers, axle, trans, etc.

Thanks Kyle, the project is already quite far along I will post more pictures, it will be rear radiator, standard engine mounts the front connected to the center of the torque tube and the rear two attached to a '97 Jetta sub frame bolted to a custom cage which also connects the Jetta struts. I am going to run the stock ECU with a C2 turbo chipset.

Hi Steve As you can se from my response to Kyle I am probably doing much the same as the 1.8T Bug project, do you know the name or location of the thread? I'd really like to see it.

Volkdent is his name. Here are three build threads for his project;

http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?t=23882

http://bb.bbboy.net/vwengineconversions ... &thread=85

http://www.germanlook.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10369

Thanks Steve much appreciated. Gave it a quick look, that looks very tight compared to the Ghia. Bit concerned about handling now too. There is a project on youtube search "mid engine VR6 bug" (I'd give you the link but I can't access it here) It has the general concept on a '73 pan - I won't comment on the design or execution. I don't think he ever got the body on it...saw itb up for sale a while

This was my first big mistake, I though it would be a good idea to narrow the sub frame, turn it 180* so it sits under the motor and the control arms are in a "trailing" orientation. I measured this several times however once fabricated and installed it became apparent it would NOT work!

Once the first idea didn't work I decided to locate the engine in the body and go from there. Progress pictures

With the engine in the body the cage work was developed. The first picture is the basic cage tack welded together to be reinstalled with the engine and trans. More to come shortly.

After I installed the basic cage with engine and trans I had a local racecar builder to come by and give me advice/direction, well worth the exercise.His recommendations made the cage much stronger. More pictures

The motor and trans removed and cage reinstalled to locate the struts/suspension and then disassembled to send the cage to the welders. My welding is not the best and the cage will be welded into the car, this definitely needs to be done right the first time.

So awesome!

See Jeff? I told you it was not insane!

It's insane!
But it's not insane. lol

Great job Ghizer!

Thanks Guys, on the insanity factor its looking like around 400HP and 2000lbs = 5lbs/HP. That puts it in with some very elite company. I know there is going to be issues making the car stick but I figure its easier to replace tires than transmissions or clutches. I will run an LSD so tire wear will be even Total cost should be well below $10K including the car, but its important to note a few things. The car won't be a trailer queen show car, the body and paint will be done by me and I am shooting for presentable. It won't be a technological wonder either, I want to repair and maintain the car myself so its going to be simple. Obviously with the budget you won't see wilwood brakes or mendeola suspensions. Having said that this car can be made to handle and stop very well using mainly VAG and a few inexpensive aftermarket components. Oh yeah and I will be doing all the work myself.

Below are pics of structural and non cosmetic body work, parts pile and motor. this is just a sample the amount of work has taken a few months part time.

What are you going to do up front to match the power and rear grip?