ShopTalk Forums | Aircooled VW Tech & Restoration Help

Getting ready to start collecting all the parts necessary to transition the 72 Squareback to sequential spark/fuel but I am not sure of the gauge,wire count, and type of connector to use on the LS2 as I do not have them as of yet. The rest of the system is already in place as I was making the mistake of trying to do it with an .009 locked distributer.

The LS2 coils are pretty straightforward to wire, 20 Ga is fine, although if you get prewired pigtails you can upsize the power and power ground lines a little.
The logic ground goes back to the ECU, the coil power grounds are the only thing I ground at the engine.
(The pinout etc is in the MSextra//MS3 manuals)

The connectors are common items on Ebay, if you pull junkyard coils do make sure to grab the connectors with them with as much wire as possible.

If you have proper ratcheting crimpers for F type pins they are also available uncrimped, makes for a cleaner install.
I use Paladiins, get them with die you can use, uninsulated crimp is my preference, also 2 sizes of the F-type die are available, Delphi also make a much cheaper tool for the Ftypes (weatherpack/metripack) that I hear work very well.

If you do splice, use the hot glue lined heat shrink waterproof crimps, buy a box of 50 each of red and a box of blue. (50 each, I ONLY use the waterproof splices and ends anymore on anything, as much for strain relief as waterproofing)
The ones from an auto parts store are OK, but you can buy name brand ones online for about the same price that are much thicker metal. (vital for long term reliability of the 1/4" spade connectors. esp the females)

I double over the stripped wire on 20 ga for a stronger crimp, and I use the "uninsulated" die on the heat shrink crimps for the same reason, the displacement type die provide a better crimp, the normal "insulated" die are too big for the very thin plastic of the heat shrink crimps anyway. The hot glue will "heal" the insulation damage when you shrink it.

Also buy a good pair of nick-free strippers, I got a same design set made in China on a lark on clearance for $3.50 (mostly to see how bad they were), they have proven to work ~just as well as the IDEAL strippers I use at work, but YMMV.
They will pay for themselves in the first half hour.


You cannot go wrong with the list here:
http://hiconsumption.com/2014/09/best-wire-strippers/
Get the Ideals and the Kleins, real thing if possible...
The Ideals come in different sizes of cutters, you want to be able to do 10-24 ga.

With proper care these are lifetime tools in most use cases.

I have 2 12ga line coming off a separate relay feeding them, the relay has its own power feed from the battery, and has about 10 wraps through a radio shack split ferrite core for noise suppression.

I have 2 more split cores on the feed lines near the coils: the purpose of this is to keep as much high power noise out of the electrical system as possible.

On my first MS2 install I had a separate driver box for the inj and ign drivers, and the ign/inj power and switched lines were routed on opposite sides of the car from the sensor cable for the same reason, to avoid having the high power stuff in the same cable bundle as the sensors... Probably overkill, my MS3 setup is wired in one cable, but the LS2 coils help.

Already have the wire stripers
How about wire for the VR?
2 conductor shielded I am guessing is 22 gauge to small?

vwi_dduvall wrote:Already have the wire stripers
How about wire for the VR?
2 conductor shielded I am guessing is 22 gauge to small?

I'd prefer shielded twisted pair, 22-24 ga is fine, its a low current but noise sensitive signal.
Note that 2 wire shielded is not the same as 2 wire twisted pair.
I used Canare Starquad mic cable with great results.
Some small in-line ferrites may be beneficial.
(Actually go around the cable)

What did you end up getting for a trigger?
Haven't gotten back to what we were discussing, just got up, work nights.

Piledriver wrote:

vwi_dduvall wrote:Already have the wire stripers
How about wire for the VR?
2 conductor shielded I am guessing is 22 gauge to small?

I'd prefer shielded twisted pair, 22-24 ga is fine, its a low current but noise sensitive signal.
Note that 2 wire shielded is not the same as 2 wire twisted pair.
I used Canare Starquad mic cable with great results.
Some small in-line ferrites may be beneficial.
(Actually go around the cable)

What did you end up getting for a trigger?
Haven't gotten back to what we were discussing, just got up, work nights.

I am purchasing the redline 24-1 VR.

Should work fine.

I bought my LS2 connector kits on ebay. I have an LS2 coil on my gasoline heater ignition system.

Steve Arndt wrote:I bought my LS2 connector kits on ebay. I have an LS2 coil on my gasoline heater ignition system.

Thanks Steve I purchased 4 pigtails on Ebay also along with some automotive grade wire so now all that is left is to get the check out to Lance.

Just to reiterate what Piledriver was saying.... The wire skinners and crimpers and procedure is everything... IF you have poor workmanship and shoddy tools and parts, don't even start a EFI system....Have the right tools is not expensive and will bring you ease of work and reliability forever....

Dale

Dale M. wrote:Just to reiterate what Piledriver was saying.... The wire skinners and crimpers and procedure is everything... IF you have poor workmanship and shoddy tools and parts, don't even start a EFI system....Have the right tools is not expensive and will bring you ease of work and reliability forever....

Dale

Thanks for the tips
Poor workmanship is not my gig!
I crimp and solder along with heat shrink all my connections where possible.
I have a set of those strippers already along with a myriad of other electrical tools.

I do have one question once i get this VR distributor in is there a doc some where that explains how it setup initially?
Like positioning for TDC #1 or otherwise?

vwi_dduvall wrote:

Dale M. wrote:Just to reiterate what Piledriver was saying.... The wire skinners and crimpers and procedure is everything... IF you have poor workmanship and shoddy tools and parts, don't even start a EFI system....Have the right tools is not expensive and will bring you ease of work and reliability forever....

Dale

Thanks for the tips
Poor workmanship is not my gig!
I crimp and solder along with heat shrink all my connections where possible.
I have a set of those strippers already along with a myriad of other electrical tools.

I do have one question once i get this VR distributor in is there a doc some where that explains how it setup initially?
Like positioning for TDC #1 or otherwise?

//rant mode on
Crimp. Just crimp. Really.
Crimps done properly are cold welds and provide good strain relief.
Solder is not an improvement in ANY way, quite the opposite.

Solder degrades the connection by wicking into the wiring and making it brittle and almost certain to crack sooner than later.
Solder also corrodes easily.

I'm not making this up, one does not EVER solder wiring on aircraft for this reason, and cars are just as bad for vibration and humidity if not worse.

Don't solder wiring.
There be Dragons. Eventually.
//rant mode off

Set the timing for 10BTCD, fixed advance.
Set the tooth#1 angle to ~80-90 btdc
(really wherever, but 80-90BTDC has been preferred for various reasons)
Turn the distributor until you get ~10BTDC on the timing light.
Lock it down.

You can then make 1/10th degree corrections to get it perfect in TS.

Turn the timing back to table control when done.

You are likely to need to play with the VR pots on the mainboard when you set this up initially.

Very interesting on the soldering and now that I recall I did not ever see soldering on aircraft, interesting rant. I did not do the crimps Just the pigtail connection part and then heat rink that area. I am very particular about my electrical I had a mentor as a teen that was an electrical engineer and now is a PE he was very particular about soldering and crimps on many projects we did. That said I should be good in that area. Once I get all the parts together and installed I will try the method of setting the initial timing thanks for the information.

Interesting article has appear on speedhunters banging the no solder drum.

http://www.speedhunters.com/2015/09/kno ... re-part-1/


https://learntotune.leadpages.co/free-tuning-lessons/

Thanks y'all for the information I would have to agree that if your building an F1 or a top fuel dragster don't use solder. Fortunately I am building neither and I live in a very wet state and I just may have never found them but most crimp but splices I have found are usually bulky and tend to suffer from moister issues. Now I might get flamed for saying so but in all my years of automotive (I am no spring chicken and am close to being the old man to those I work with.) I have yet to see a properly solder splice fail granted none of them are subjected to the vibrations of an F1, NASCAR, or drag racing.

So let the flogging begin!
But, I will stick to well done solder and heat shrink splicing and crimp sealed connectors like the ones used on the LS2 coils.