Honest average cost of stock T4 rebuild/conversion?

[eskamobob1]

Hey Guys,

I am trying to price out my options here. Everyone ever basically says assume any engine you buy will require a rebuild, even if its running. As such, I am trying to figure out how much I need set asside before I start the build. The known costs to me are as follows:

• Core - $500 (basic) - $1000 (complete motor) - These seem pretty readily available in my area
• Conversion kit - $2000 (complete DTM or Porsche conversion)
• Basic rebuild kit - $1500 - $3000+ (depending on if you get new heads and where you go)
• exhaust - $1-2000 for a nice one
• Carbs or decent EFI - $500-1000 (assuming they dont come on the engine and my 40mm IDFs wont work)

What I dont know the prices of are the tools I will need (I have basic mechanics tools, but no machine or GD&T tooling), and the costs of the machine work needed for such a build (balancing, any case machining, head work, etc), and anything else im forgetting that goes into the motor.

This engine will be a midway point for me to use for a couple years before I build a much larger T4. What I am trying to price out is how much money will be "lost" on this engine before I go bigger to try and weigh it against a "throwaway" T1. All I am aiming for out of this is a smoother power delivery than stock (my engine doesnt feel well balanced fucking at all currently, but its ole reliable), say a 5.5-6k redline (so shift points arent as set in stone), and 80-90 hp, but I do 25-35k/yr in this car with lots and lots of highway miles.

EDIT: My honest ideal would be to just buy a running stock T4 and convert it, but they are impossible to find in teh first place even if I did know how to identify a good one. I would be open to long blocks from a reputable place if that is a better move financially for a more simple engine.

[Clatter]

Funny you should mention this right now..

Because i have so many of these lying about, I put one together just for fun and to clean up around here.
Usually, because i collect many cores, i can use better OG German parts, saving money in the process.
Just am putting one together using the best parts from a half-dozen motors, no China anything.
Going to put new AMC heads on it, full dynamic spin-balance, etc.
This guy on TOS used to offer his stock rebuilds for around $4500 with additional core charges and shipping to be expected as well.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds ... id=2345157
Since he decks the cases, plugs the galleys, uses new heads, etc. you could expect decent quality from the guy, as well as an appropriate price.
Was going to shoot for a bit more than that from my stock bus motor, as it has a few upgrades, and I'm not in a hurry to sell it.
I also have a couple more that would make nice conversion engines.
A 1911 with a Web 494 for example..
PM me if you want to talk.

I'll tell you this, the amount of time even a stock rebuild can eat is enormous.
Because SO many things are crappy these days, from P&L to bearings to case cores to...
You'll spend far more time on inspection and measuring than you ever did in the old days.
There are traps and pitfalls that never existed with new parts in the past, and they change all the time.
You have to be up on the latest tricks manufacturers are pulling!
It's also a real challenge getting decent machine work; especially someone to accurately deck the cases, or adjust a line-bore to match today's inaccurate main bearings.
It takes a LOT of digging to get together what you need.
The time to find cores, haul them home, rip them apart, clean everything, and measure everything is huge.
By the time i got a stock motor together, there's certainly more than 100 hours in it. Maybe 200.
When you throw in the parts cost, it's a couple bucks an hour at best by the time it's sold.
if it's your idea of fun, then it's not so bad.
If it isn't, it is..

There are no more reputable volume engine houses anymore.
They are all losing their asses so bad on each build,
That they are cutting corners like mad in order to deliver at the prices promised.

[eskamobob1]

Ah, I'm sorry if I was a bit vauge. I plan on doing the work myself and don't mind the time (it is something I do seriously want to learn). My problem is that I have 0 idea of the machining and tool costs so I can't effectively price out a build other than "somewhere around 10k is poop hits the fan"

As for $4500-6000 for a prepped long block, that seems to be what I have found through 914 forums and fat performance as well, so seems reasonable. I just didn't know how much I can save valuing my own time at 0

[Clatter]

You're going to have to find a machine shop.
My local guy is retired, but i can talk him into doing this/that.

That will be your first challenge;
Finding someone who can properly deck a case and measure a main tunnel for line-bore.

Where are located?

See also the Cheap Junk build in my sig..

[eskamobob1]

You're going to have to find a machine shop.
My local guy is retired, but i can talk him into doing this/that.

That will be your first challenge;
Finding someone who can properly deck a case and measure a main tunnel for line-bore.

Where are located?

See also the Cheap Junk build in my sig..

Im down in orange county, so hopefully there should be a decent chop I can find in meca. As for your cheap build, I have read that threat probably 5-6 times at this point. The case measurements are great info for me, but because I dont exactly have a lot of spare parts sitting around I was thinking of going with a rebuild kit I guess my other option is to mass buy 4-5 cores and try and go from there but that seems like a pretty big gamble given my slightly tight budget (took most of my drive train money and got 2 different cars during covid)

[cal 67]

You're going to have to find a machine shop.
My local guy is retired, but i can talk him into doing this/that.

That will be your first challenge;
Finding someone who can properly deck a case and measure a main tunnel for line-bore.

Where are located?

See also the Cheap Junk build in my sig..

Im down in orange county, so hopefully there should be a decent chop I can find in meca. As for your cheap build, I have read that threat probably 5-6 times at this point. The case measurements are great info for me, but because I dont exactly have a lot of spare parts sitting around I was thinking of going with a rebuild kit I guess my other option is to mass buy 4-5 cores and try and go from there but that seems like a pretty big gamble given my slightly tight budget (took most of my drive train money and got 2 different cars during covid)

I'm in LA if you need machine work. I can shorten barrels, deck, line bore, flycut, but bosses and sleeve bores for T1 lifters, bore spigots, cut for a Porsche fan, etc. Text: 562-235-3897