Beehive springs - a theory

[Bruce.m]

Was looking at beehive springs recently & made some observations. The advantage of a beehive spring is known. Basically less prone to resonance & less mass moving. So higher rpm with less spring pressure/ friction losses.

Notes:
- LS springs are beehive & cheap.
- LS1 spring are installed at 1.8” @ 76lbs seat pressure. 220lbs at open.
- Other LS springs (3 & 6) are similar but with higher pressures. Circa 250 or 300 open.
- The LS7 is an odd ball with a longer spring which is installed at 1.96”
- The LS7 retainer is offset to enable the longer spring..
- All use an 8mm valve.
- base of the spring has OD of 1.29” & ID of 0.885” (LS1, others may vary).
- if you fit an LS1 valve & retainer on a type4 head at the stock installed height of 1.559” the seat pressure would be around 150lbs. At stock can lift probably around 250lbs. Possibly having binding issues with high lift.

The hypothesis.

- Machine the T4 guide boss to slim down so a LS1 (or similar) spring would fit.
- fit the LS1 spring with the offset LS7 retainer.
- installed height should be around 1.72” @ 100lbs
- plenty of available lift before bind.
- low max lbs at full lift but good valve control.
- retainer is steel but lighter that stock because of the narrow spring top.

Discuss!!

[Bruce.m]

I also meant to say. If I could buy them here as easily as in the states ($5 for the retainer & similar for the springs), I’d pick up a pair for test fitting but it’s not so easy here.

Also, they almost fit a type1 head but the spring OD is about 1mm bigger than the recess in the head. So that would need a tiny adjustment.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I've heard of them but...

https://www.bing.com/search?pglt=41&q=b ... A1&PC=LCTS

There is somethings in this that may help in their use or reasons for or not to use.

Lee

[philipjackson]

What is its current price in the market?

[Bruce.m]

Sorry don’t understand the question.

The benefit of beehive springs are well known. David Vizard has a good YouTube video on the subject.

I noticed the “beehives done right” advertised on TOS have some similarities regarding the install height & use of an offset retainer.

[wreck]

I'm running Pac racing beehives (PAC-1286), with LS3 valves , stock exhaust valves and cut down intakes . The issue with the longer valves is the valves are angled to the rocker posts . packing out the posts moves the rocker closer to the valve .

My installed height is 1.75 from memory . with 48mm intake valves they have spun up to 7500rpm quite a few times . So far I have 40,000km on the springs ,retainers etc . running 0.575" lift with a CB2300 cam , a Scat C55 ,now Nowak cam . Guide wear has been an issue . I've done the guides 2 twice.
But that could be geometry related , or just the aggressive cam profiles .

beehives .jpg

[Bruce.m]

I’ve found a supplier with stock & a good price so ordered one spring & retainer to test fit etc.

If the offset retainer works, the stock length valve enables the spring install height to be similar to yours.

[Piledriver]

They make beehive springs for Ford 4.6l
1.6" installed height, might be better suited...


RPM SERIES FORD 4.6L 2V
SKU: PAC-1214X
Part#: PAC-1214X
Name: PAC-1214X RPM Series Ford 4.6L 2V 0.600 Lift Ovate Wire Beehive
SKU: PAC-1214X
Alt Part#: PAC-1214X-16
Description: RPM Series Beehive Valve Spring Ford 4.6L 2 Valve
OD Large End: 1.061
ID Large End: 0.698
ID Small End: 0.636
Install Height: 1.600
Load at Installed Height: 120
Spring Open Height: 1.080
Spring Open Load: 285

[Bruce.m]

PAC has some options it must be said, although the price isn’t in the bargain category

Looking more closely at the LS1 & L92 springs. The spring rate is mild but lift is limited. The LS3 etc springs have a more aggressive rate but even so, the install height preload is no more than Scat HD singles (assuming the LS7 cap does actually have a decent offset).

Another interesting option is the dodge srt10 beehive spring. The PAC version (oem is no longer available) can take a LS1/LS7 retainer in theory. The OD is 1.25” and the spring rate isn’t crazy.

Of course at that price ($14 each?) you may as well get the typical VW dual springs, but I still like the idea of running a beehive.

[Bruce.m]

Initial research has concluded.

I’ll check the maths & write it up later.

[Bruce.m]

First test fit was disappointing.

I have a pair of box fresh autolina type1 heads. I’ve also got a pair of dirty 1.7 heads but without machining the guide boss down they aren’t going to be useful for test fitting.

So I fitted the LS7 retainer (no spring) & measured the available spring height with the valve closed. The answer was a disappointing 1.6” (will use US units as it makes sense in this situation). The retainer was not a good fit & wobbled. A few pounds wasted I guess.!

I went back later and realised the new valve locks were oval as the valve could easily spin. So ground down the locks a bit. That moved the height to 1.625”. At 7 degrees angle a small change in diameter makes quite a difference. So proper sorted the lock to be a tight fit on the valve…..

And got exactly 1.7” of install height.

[Bruce.m]

The valve tip now sits about 1mm below the top of the retainer. If needed for reversed rockers or roller rockers, the typical lash cap adds 1.5mm




Excuse the grubby rockers pulled from the spares box.

[Bruce.m]

As you can see, the LS7 retainer is a good wedge fit. The LS7 has a matching 8mm 7 degree valve lock so it fits the VW valves & locks.

[Bruce.m]

To wrap up…

That leaves a few spring choices & probably some others I haven’t noticed. These all should work with the LS7 retainer.

LS3/LS6:
90 lbs @ 1.8” 295lbs @ .55” lift (the quoted spec)
For us, that’s 127lbs at 1.7” 295lbs at .45” lift
(Bind is at 1.2” length)
OD is 1.28” which is 1mm too big for T1 (ID is fine)

OD is fine for T4 but the guide boss needs slimmed.

L92:
Not worth it, except for low lift up to 0.4” (86A?)

PAC1283:
110lbs @ 1.75”. 328 @ 0.6” lift (quoted)
For us, 128lbs @ 1.7”. 328 lbs @ 0.55”
Also 0.43” lift = 284lbs
0.5” lift = 310 lbs

OD is 1.25” so all good for Type1. Again boss machining to fit T4

[Bruce.m]

Comp cams 26981 would also probably work with the retainer (need to check the ID OD at the top)

110lbs @ 1.7”. 292lbs @ 0.525 lift (max)

Base of spring is 1.24” OD & 0.825” ID so again fine for T1 and usual machining for T4