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lead filling

Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2004 6:11 pm
by BeetleBugger
I have some holes in my body on the '66. Over the rear decklid, by the rain channels. Would lead filling be a good idea for this?

Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:03 pm
by MNAirHead
What kind of holes?????

Do you have a welder?

Leading is possible... solid welding and plastic filler are easy for the casual iron worker.

T.

Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 5:54 pm
by BeetleBugger
They are rust holes. I squared them off with a Dremel.

I do have a welder, but no gas, or flux wire. It will only melt .025 wire, I am having trouble finding gas or the correct wire around here.

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2004 7:00 pm
by super vw
you mean your welding with .25 and NO GAS OR FLUX? you need gas if your using a solid wire. for body work, i use .23 (Same as .25 ) and a 75/25 mix of argon and co2.

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:21 pm
by BeetleBugger
right now, it has .25 solid wire. I have no gas for it. I'de rather use gas, but its hard to find anyone around here who can spell welding or gas. The only way anyone experiences welding around here is when they connect jumper cables backwards.

I'm just woundering if lead filling would be okay. I have a block of lead sitting in my shed. I have a blowtorch. I think I have some mapp gas for it somewhere...that should heat the metal up good :) All I need to do is form the lead into rods...(just chew it into strips, right?)

Anyway...I'll look some more for welding supplies before I do the lead thing.

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2004 6:59 pm
by Mdyson
Lead is for filling, not patching. When you weld the metal you are molecularly binding the filler (weld wire/rod) material to the original metal. Lead is no different than using plastic filler, it attaches to the surface and will not become part of it. That said, if you want to fill your holes and not be concerned about the structure of the metal after you fill it then go for it. It will be no better than using bondo to do the same thing, just more difficult to apply. In my opinion; fiberglass or an Eastwood Metal Patch would do a better job if welding is not an option.

Just keep in mind that whatever caused you rot needs to be dealt with or your problems will come back.

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 7:35 am
by Rescue912
Agreed. Lead is soft and provides little structural support. Easiest way to fill holes is to back the small holes with a copper spoon and *ZOT* with the wire feed welder (after finding some C25 in a bottle :D ). The spoon will give you a stable backing but the copper won't stick to the patch.

For larger holes stitch some patch pieces in. You can also use a torch with MAPP gas to braze or an ox-ac torch (my weapon of choice usually) to add metal but fixing only with lead I would be leery of.

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 7:55 am
by BeetleBugger
Well, I found some flux core wire. all I could find in flux was .30 wire. I bought wire before that I thought was flux, but was in the wrong box and was solid. So, i'll try this jank and see how it works. (I have to make a 75-80 mile ride to the Home Depot. (Lowes is closer, next to Home Depot, but Lowes doesn't have as much) I hope it'll melt the wire. It says "uses only .25 wire." But they sent .30 tips with the dang thing, and .24 copper wire.

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 11:53 am
by Rescue912
What kinda welder you have? Turn the power up and feed rate down and see what you get, should be able to stitch with heavier wire. Just be careful cuz the heavier wire will tend to blow holes in sheet metal.

good luck !

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2004 9:13 am
by MNAirHead
Welding supply companies will mail order...

You have sheet metal sitting around that works well for patching... some computer cases, other car parts etc... all work well for filling.

Using thicker wire is a pain -- I can never get the wire to stop blowing holes through the panels.

Flux wire does work fairly well -- you need to spend more time grinding and cleaning up the welds after you're done.

If you can't find a welding supplier, private message me

T.

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2004 6:14 pm
by BeetleBugger
Yeah, flux wire sucks. I hate useing flux. But, ehh...whatta you gunna do?

I have some really thick metal, really thin metal, and nothing else. I'm sure I'll find something.

I'll look tomarrow and see who made the welder (its a reconditioned one, thats why I don't want to use gas with this one) I should have kept my Lincoln welder dangit! I sold it when the wire feed motor went out.

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 5:33 pm
by BeetleBugger
Here is a late update...

Well, I tried the .030 flux wire, and it won't stick to the metal, but it burns through in some places. Its pretty average sized sheet metal, not TOO thin, but not thick. It seems to melt the .24 wire fine, and it sticks to the metal, but it isn't a strong weld without the gas. Anyhow, I was looking in some text for welding supplies, and I can't find any supplier that sells any tips smaller than .030. I looked for some flux wire less than .030, and nothing. I'm thinking that if I get thin enough flux cored wire, it'll metl it and it'll stick to the metal good enough. Some prices from some mail order suppliers for a 3 pound bottle of mixed argon is over 85 bucks, with a used bottle. I have no idea how much it is to refil. Either way, I need a proper fitting tip, and I can't find one of those.

The welder is Solar brand. Never heard of it.

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 5:50 pm
by rlarkin
I have never seen flux core smaller than .030. Most is even .035.
I am using .025 solid with 75/25 mix, and no problems.

A 40 to 65 cubic foot bottle costs me $20 to fill. The place I use wanted a first time purchase of $99 for the bottle, from then on you get a different bottle each time. I instead bought an empty 45 at Weldingsupply.com and used it as my exchange.

I somehow remember reading that is ILLEGAL to ship full bottles!

On edit- I can get 5 packs of TWEEKO tips at Ace hardware for about $5.

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:40 am
by amoto
When you switch between flux core and solid core wire, there is a couple of jumpers on the welder that must be changed. On mine, they are two copper plates attached to 4 bolt-posts. I think it changes the welder from + ground to - ground. If the jumpers are set up the wrong way, the welds won't stick.

(this is the way my Craftsman welder works...)

Speaking of lead fill, does anyone know a good way to remove it? I cut into the roof of my '63 bug (installing a sunroof) and hit a patch of lead fill. Not sure how to get it off. I'm thinking propane torch and rag??

Andrew

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 1:00 pm
by factman
you can use some sort of mat with a short strand fiberglass filler which wont crack as easily as plastic body filler. if you ever got your welder working right i would cut out around the rust and section and new peice in that you fabricate. use a sand bag as a backing to make the peice so you can get nice curves. for the body line, make a crease in the metal and then when your done use filler to make it smooth and never clamp a roof rack in that area. and if you have never done lead filling its not for the novice. i had a teacher show me how and it looked so easy but keeping it the right temp and working it isn't all that easy. but it wont crack like plastic filler will.

SAM