Cooling system tests, week #2

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 7:24 am

This is a little late as we wrapped up week #2 on Friday... I was ready for a weekend off so I left as soon as I could on Friday.

Week number two was informative, disappointing, and down right unbelieveable!

The feeling I had in my stomach at the 10 minute mark with the 36HP aftermarket shroud (third one we tested) was worse than about anything I have ever experienced!

Who would have ever beieved that after all the aftermarket systems that this one would have been the best?? Never me!

Seeing the efficiency of this shroud did put a damper on the DTM project, but at the same time proved that something can work better than stock, which did give a glimmer of hope to the DTM project.

I know that the DTM can be made to work, but to do so may take so much research that it will take months or years to do. It may end up in a piece that is so diverse that it could not be sold for any competitive price. At this point I have to analyze the situation and get my priorities straight as to the next step. I'm not a super huge company that has tons of R&D budget, and this has thus far proven to be a losing proposition- something I'm not accustomed to, or tolerable of . I'm not totally giving up o the project, but rather putting it into perspective.

The tests themselves have been worth their weight in gold for knowledge, and now that Ultra VW is going to cover it all we are going to atleast be able to spread the word to other people about what works and what don't. I have learned a tremendous amount from this tests and I will be able to share these experiences for the rest of my life with others that have questions about cooling. That makes the testing worth the time but after today this portion of the test is a done deal.

We will have one more portion to test the final 911 system and try the DTM one more time after we redesign the internals a bit. If the DTM does not outperform the 36HP shroud in this round of testing the idea will be scrapped, and Joe's mold will be put to rest for the final time(atleast till some other stuff is well out of the way)

If we do scrap the DTM I will be making a version of the 36HP shroud. It will probably be made as a two piece design that will incorporate a TIV oil cooler like the DTM, and since its two pieces it could be split for *PERFECT* vane alignment internally. We have learned that the shape, position, and length of the "airfoils" are the most important characteristic of the left side of ANY shroud. The more studied a stock shroud and the 36HP shroud the more that we saw this.

On Friday we did a test with the 36HP shroud with a smaller diameter 356/912 top pulley and upped the drive ratio from 1.60:1 to a whopping 1.99:1 this was our coolest system test yet with this shroud and the ONLY one that yielded better cooling with a faster fan speed.. This tells me that this shroud design has tremendous potential, as stock did not have this type of trait, nor did the DTM, or any other system. With those systems all that happened with more airflow was the #1 cylinder ran freezing cold and everything else suffered.

Today I'm testing one more stock shroud that we just happened to find laying out back. This shroud has a different duct to route the air to the oil cooler, than most normal shrouds. As a matter of fact we were ables to find 7 different dghouse shrouds and we have cleaned them up and will be testing them against each other today. Each of them have been tested with and without the flaps and thermostat in the same tests to see if they really help direct the flow- The results have been interesting so far!

I cannot wait to get the articles in Ultra VW, but I'm SURE that its going to spark controversy. I won't be arguing with anyone unless they have plotted, analyzed data! just like my signature line says- expert opinions don't count..... That even goes for mine as the testing proved me wrong atleast once everyday during it!

speedy57tub · Post by **speedy57tub** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 7:44 am

Simply said, WOW!!!

Very, very interesting.....I'm without words right now......

Keep up the good work Jake!

samcat · Post by **samcat** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 8:54 am

Coooool (literally

)
Glad I am subscribed to Ultra VW...
Will there be any of the T4 cooling shroud tests in there? or just T1 or a bit of both?

Either way, cant wait

Cya,
Sam C

kafer-cup · Post by **kafer-cup** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 9:01 am

I can not find ULTRA VW around here....how can I subscribe??? I would hate to miss anything!
Any info on how or where i can subsctibe?
Mark

65ghia · Post by **65ghia** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 9:02 am

In your test have you tried the doghouse without ducts that looks like its been chopped 1.5 inches in height from the stock doghouse. I think cb performance sold it a while back? It may be the trapazoid shroud that you mentioned earlier.

DudeAndHisBus · Post by **DudeAndHisBus** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 9:20 am

Can't wait for this to be out in the magazine.

Kafer-cup, check your local Books-a-Million. They're the ones around here that have it.

samcat · Post by **samcat** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 9:55 am

kafer-cup wrote:I can not find ULTRA VW around here....how can I subscribe??? I would hate to miss anything!
Any info on how or where i can subsctibe?
Mark

http://www.ultravw.com/

Its an OUTSTANDING magazine, better than Volksworld IMHO.

(I still subscribe to both!)

Cya,
SaM C

PaulKnight · Post by **PaulKnight** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 9:59 am

thanks Sam and to answer your question, yes we will cover some type 4 cooling (and build-up!) at some point too.

yes, subscribe online or order individual issues if you'd prefer (as a taster

).

once again, to work jake... i truly can't wait for the finished thing!!

PaulKnight · Post by **PaulKnight** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 10:02 am

oops, i meant top work jake!!

i must register properly so i can edit my posts! another job for tomorrow...

scottk · Post by **scottk** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 10:08 am

Jake,

Good cooling is great, but... what about warm-up? I want to make sure that my motor warms up evenly so that no warpage of the cylinders occours. Any provision in the DTM or other aftermarket coolers to allow for proper warm-up?

Scott

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 10:19 am

From what I have seen they all warm up on the performance engine the same way.. in the first 2.5 minutes all the heads are over 250 degrees with all the systems. some don't pass 250 but they are there..

The DTM willNOT have a Thermostat, its something to fail if set up wrong and creat a liability for me that we don't want. The best design in the world can be ruined by the installer!

67 newbie · Post by **67 newbie** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 10:22 am

MASSIVE TYPE IV wrote:From what I have seen they all warm up on the performance engine the same way.. in the first 2.5 minutes all the heads are over 250 degrees with all the systems. some don't pass 250 but they are there..
The DTM willNOT have a Thermostat, its something to fail if set up wrong and creat a liability for me that we don't want. The best design in the world can be ruined by the installer!

So in your opinion Jake a T/stat is not needed?

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 10:26 am

it is on a stocker, but.......... I'll know more tomorrow.

67 newbie · Post by **67 newbie** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 10:31 am

MASSIVE TYPE IV wrote:it is on a stocker, but.......... I'll know more tomorrow.

Cool, unless you produce that 36hp shroud before I am ready I will be running a doghouse with Tstat on my 1915... I would still rather run one period, just makes sense to me.

Again thank you for all of the hard work.

Max Welton · Post by **Max Welton** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 10:57 am

We need to know when the shroud test article will run in Ultra VW. I expect to learn quite a bit about that magazine from the published form of the test results.