Cam/lifter test fixture fab has begun!

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:36 am

I'm tired of questions concerning cams and lifters! There are HUGE issues with TIV cams and mostly lifters these days. One in six engines end up with a failure! The cams that don't go flat are killed by the lifters, the lifters that don't go flat explode pushrod cups!

I have been thinking of a way to create the best fixture in the word to test cams and lifters for the Type IV engine and have came up with a design.

Its not going to be hard to do at all, and will provide a solid base for testing each manufacturers cams, and lifters. It will also provide a base for testing ceramic lifters Vs. conventional lifters to show the differences in wear after 20-30 hours of engine operation. We can even test them at the same time!

I plan on offering a "Break in service" for customers to send their cams and lifters to us for testing and cycling. I don't know how much it would cost for the service but it would prevent early cam and lifter failures- thats priceless! I just want to make enough to pay for the fixture and keeping it in service (fuel, oil, time to break it down and cycle etc.)

Okay, for enquiring minds, here is my plan:

The Bergs did something *similar* to this for TI engines back in the late 90s. The design had some flaws and they did not have a motor strong enough to power it. I *won't* have that problem!

The other issue is trying to replicate the conditions found in a running engine:

* Oil temperatures
*splash oil coming off the big end of the rods
*valve spring tension (mine will be adjustable from stock to 500 pounds!)
* oil contaminants (our engines don't have the cleanest oil, even with double filtration)

I want to introduce these things to the test fixture, and the way that I'm going to design this sucker, it will be easy to do!

MINE IS TYPE IV POWERED!!

Thats right! I'm going to use my super heavy duty engine test stand to build the fixture. I was just about ready to sell it a few weeks ago since we don't use it any longer, but it is the perfect candidate for creating the structure for the fixture. The way it is designed the engine being test fired sits about 38" off the floor. This will make it easy to build the fixture and make it swing from a sleeve mount that bolts to the bell housing and quickly disconnects for faster cam changes. The test fixture would hang from its own weight to keep the drive belt tight. Here are some details:

Test stand:
Fitted with oil pressure gauges for the slave engine as well as the test fixture. It will also incorporate its own battery and electrical system and will charge the battery via alternator. The fuel tank is a 35 gallon drum (for extended amounts of run time) that is mounted to the fixture but can be removed. I will outfit the fixture with a strobe light and siren (from a fire engine) that will illuminate (in the shop)and sound off when we see low oil pressure in either the fixture or slave engine. It will also incorporate another siren with a different tone and illuminate a different light when if we encounter a cam/lifter failure. This one will be switched on by a "Chip detector switch" read more about this one later.

The test stand will also feature it's own wheels and axles and a tongue for being towed behind my bus or to different places on the property where it can be used to run for days on end for extreme testing and we won't even hear it.

We will even incorporate a drip pan in the bottom of the fixture to catch any nastiness and route it into an drum on the under side that could be emptied.

*Slave engine:
1700cc TIV set with 10:1 CR and a long duration, shallow lift camshaft. I will be cooling the slave engine with a DTM so cooling will not be an issue. I don't need alot of torque because the load will be very little on the slave engine compared to pushing a car down the road.

I need to make the engine super efficient so it burns less fuel (else it'll break the bank in fuel needed to run it.) The engine will have full flow oiling as well, this is to be a must simply because the SLAVE ENGINES OIL WILL BE ROUTED THROUGH THE TEST FIXTURES OIL SYSTEM AS WELL! Thats how we are going to get the oil to operation temperature!

*oiling system:
Oil will be sent from the slave engines oil pump to a filter mounted on the test stand (one of the Holley filters from aircooled.net with removeable filter elements) then into the main oil galley of the test fixture.(just like full flow)

The oil will then be cycled through the fixture just like factory and end up in the oil sump, then picked back up by the oil pick up tube. Then inspection hole just forward of the oil pick up tube will be removed, welded up and then retapped for the "Chip detector switch" this will be the switch that can warn us via the siren and strobe light if metal ends up in our oil (cam or lifters start to go flat) it does this by normally having an open circuit with a magnet to colect magnetic particles. When enough particles are present the circuit closes and the device attached to it will receive power. Helicopters use these in the gearboxes to keep people alive, I'm incorporating it to tell us when we have a problem with a cam or lifter at the very earliest stage of the game, even before that oil hits the oil pump.

after the oil goes through the pump ont he test fixture it will then be sent to another Holley filter (with higher micron count) and then to an external cooler (with an oil thermostat inline) after the oil is filtered anc cooled it will then be sent to an accu- sump where we can be able to gain some extra oil should a problem arise, and also be able to RE PRESSURIZE THE ENTIRE OIL SYSTEM DURING CAM/LIFTER SWAPS IN THE FIXTURE! Then the oil will be fed directly back into the slave engines main oil galley.(just like full flow) All oil lines will be -10 AN and the fixture will feature two aviation quik disconnects on its oil system to make quicker cam/lifter changes a possibility, with less mess.

Test fixture:
The case is one that I can no longer use because it was a culprit of a tossed rod. The rod made a nasty gouge in the roof of the case, but hurt nothing else. The case halves will be "O- ringed so no sealant will be needed to seal them up, sealant would become very nasty pretty quickly if we had to use it.

The crankshaft wil feature highly modified rods with bearings. The rods will ONLY be a "Big end" and will not have a beam on them (because we have no pistons in the fixture) and will be removeable and could be swapped to others with tighter/looser side clearances to see the effects of each on the cam and lifters. This may need some revision but only trial and error will tell.

The crankshaft, drive pulley and dual mass flywheel (to keep things turning) will be balanced on our balancer. I plan on having 3 drive ratios but will probably only use a 1:1 drive ratio to keep the fixture and slave engine in unisyn 100% I plan on using drive pulleys from old air compressors (dual belt 14" diameter) to keep belt slippage to a minimum.

It is my feeling that this fixture will be the closest possible way to monitor the effects of cams and lifters in the TIV engine. I believe that the oiling system will be a key to showing exactly what the lifters go through during the life of the engine. I plan on using all kinds of spring tensions, different parts, some mismatched cams/lifters on purpose and see what works and what don't and take photos of all of it.

I even plan on running the same cam and lifters without a bhreak in, and then do it with a proper break in to see what happens.

I even plan on testing synthetic oils, diesel oils, conventional oils and oil additives. There is a good possibility that this fixture may run for the next solid year and hardly ever shut down!

when the fixture is finished I plan on writing a letter to each cam and lifter manufacturer requesting their products for the test. If they won't give them to me I will but them. EVERY cam and lifter available will be tested within the next 6 months, or I will die trying to do it.

Perhaps I could coax Ultra VW into printing the results on the comparisons we do when we have cams and lifters from each supplier. The only fair way to do that would be to use the lifters that the cam manufacturers recommend for their cams.... I'd even have to use very similar grinds from each manufacturer, thats not gonna be easy, they all vary a bit!

Judgement day is coming, and I don't have a clue who the winner will be! I know it will give us the opportunity to see how our OEM resurfaced, cryo enhanced, DLC coated lifters will do against everything else, on each manufacturers cams.. It might even show enough trends to make a hypothesis on why we have any failures at all!

As the fab work gets further I'll be taking some pics.

Dave_Darling · Post by **Dave_Darling** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:19 am

Sweet!!! I'm looking forward to seeing the results, Jake!

--DD

wizard · Post by **wizard** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:40 am

anyone normal would have a rest after all that cooling system testing!

Keep it up Jake!

adam

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:56 am

This is a rest... I can let it run for 24 hours straight and just lay in bed and hear it humming away all night long....

(Neighbors are REALLY gonna love this one I have a set of headers just for them LOL LOL LOL

)

Post by **sparkmaster1** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:58 pm

I hope it doesn't keep the squirells up... I'd hate see vermin sleep deprived and walking around unspecting of their fate..

LOL Tim

Plastermaster · Post by **Plastermaster** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:06 pm

When you say one in 6 engines, I assume you mean the ones that are nor Web-Cam?

Ron

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:18 pm

Nope, the cam don't matter these days! The lifters are such junk that you could have a gold plated titanium cam and it would still go flatter than hell!

Plastermaster · Post by **Plastermaster** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:32 pm

Then I guess as an engine builder, this is no small issue. Tearing apart 1 out of 6 engines gotta hurt.

Ron

farmer · Post by **farmer** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:33 pm

Now I´m getting nervus.
Has this turned out to be a problem with ceramic lifters too ?
Torben

Tom in PA · Post by **Tom in PA** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:34 pm

Jake, you ARE a madman

That's going to be quite the testing jig when you're done. Hope it works well. This kind of information is impossible to get elsewhere. If this works, this will be a HUGE service to the type IV community. We all will be in your debt. I guess you won't even bother asking the American rags to publish this one...LOL. It is really amazing that we do buy so much of this stuff on the word of the manufacturer alone (or their reputation). Not much hard data to be had anywhere. Hopefully a common thread shows up that can answer some of the problems showing up recenty.

Tom in PA

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:36 pm

It only bit me on TWO engines due to our ritualistic break in.... BUT I know guys that have lost 3 in a row!

Some shops lost 13 engines in one month!

This is serious, or I would not be doing it and spending 400 bucks for a set of ceramics!

DudeAndHisBus · Post by **DudeAndHisBus** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:06 pm

When do you expect to have this test finished? It's getting pretty close to the time for me to order all my parts for the rebuilt, but I'd love to know what this results with before I order them.

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:22 pm

Maybe about 3 weeks.. But I have some big events coming up including a track weekend this weekend and then dyno day in two weeks....

I made good progress with it over the weekend, more to do now that the idea is solid in my mind.

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:38 pm

Jake, here is a question. I have a set of PRISTINE 1996 or 1997 web cam lifters. They have 86K miles on them with 42 oil changes. There is not a mark or swirl or groove on them. They are clean enough to eat from.

Would it be worth anyone time, to sacrifice these lifters to (a) have the rockwell hardeness of the surfaces and the sides tested to see what has changed and (b) carefully and slowly sand or grind the surface to see just how far the hardness goes and (c) to check the surface to see what Rz or Ra factor of smoothness they have? I have access to a profilometer at work for checking surface smoothness. They may also be clean enough to worth testing in your machine. I was thinking of using them again...because they are that clean. Let me know. Ray

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:54 pm

Ray, those are the genuine Johnsons... Never had but ONE go flat out of 400cams/lifter sets..

It would be nice to see the rockwell of them for sure.