single relief case.... which is the best oil pump??

CHAZAVW · Post by **CHAZAVW** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 5:58 am

i did a search and could not find much of anything......

i have a 1914cc w044 heads 37.5X 40 dual 44 idfs balanced lower end stock 1.1 rockers w/solid shafts and swivel heads..... engle 110

comp now is 7.5 to 1 i ultimately want to turbo and go w/ 1.25 rockers...... i have the turbo set up already.... but i have not attempted it...... i have had this nasty oil leak.....

it is a touchy subject so please bear with me....

got a "BRAND-NEW CASE" from cali-imports back in like 2000 well they gave me a single relief..... i was new and dumb got taken advantage of.....

got a "BRAND NEW OIL PUMP" from a local guy back in like 2000, who is an ahole...... i initially thought the guy was good..... as you will read he is a butt head....

regardless..... i vented the crakcase vented both valve covers.....

got the special pushrod tubes that are spring loaded.... what a pain those were...... silicone o rings....... and rtv sealer....

i was still leaking oil..... right out of the push rod tubes...... right in the middle......

was kind of wierd...... so i hooked up my soon to be oil pressure gauge..... right where the oil light sensor is..... 1/8 npt....etc......

65psi at 1,000 rpms..... increased as rpms..... went higher.....

i am going to shove this oil pump right up that guys behind.....

and i need to find out what pump i am going to get for free from cali imports...... dembastards...... like $20 is gonna kill them....

is there a way to by pass the relief system totally..... i already have an external filter and 8 pass or 6 pass cooler......

thanks.... any help is great............rob

Post by **Marc** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:05 am

What plunger & spring are you using? It's not the pump's fault that pressure is high on a cold engine, that's due to oil viscosity and the capacity of the relief system. Leakage from the pushrod tubes is also not due to any overcapacity of the pump - they're exposed only to crankcase pressure, not pump pressure. And most of the expando tubes on the market do leak - it's just a matter of when & how much.
It won't cause excess oil pressure but do check the port-matching of the pump body to the engine case, some of these cases don't line up well with a normal German-OEM style pump. If they don't have the "right" pump for that case, you'll probably want a small-passage (311 115 107HD) pump that you can grind the ports out to match.

69bug4me · Post by **69bug4me** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:16 am

Those spring loaded pushrod tubes will always give you fits and start leaking. I would go back to the stock style tubes,you wont need any sealer just use the good seals and should be fine,I have even re-used them before and never had any leaks.

Only thing the spring loaded tubes are good for is off-roading to do an emergency repair IMO.

Excess oil pressure is not causing the tubes to leak as they have no pressure,just returning the oil to your sump.

What kind of pump is it that you have now..steel? or aluminium?

Shane

CHAZAVW · Post by **CHAZAVW** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:28 am

shane...alum

CHAZAVW · Post by **CHAZAVW** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:34 am

marc.... you always seem to come to my rescue.....thanks...

i have not removed the pump yet..... next time i get i will remove pump and check oil galley holes for port matching.....etc..... i think that this is probably going to be my problem.....we'll see....

plunger and spring are for extra pressure extra flow etc....

car was warm oil is 20w50.... like i said the crank case is vented good....

it was almost 60 in cleveland this weekend......

Post by **Marc** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:50 am

CHAZAVW wrote: plunger and spring are for extra pressure extra flow etc....
car was warm oil is 20w50.... like i said the crank case is vented good....
it was almost 60 in cleveland this weekend......

I'd try the stock spring & plunger - all those "high pressure" kits do is confuse the temperature control system (and in a single-relief case, they tend to overpressure the oil cooler too).
They've been a staple item in the VW parts biz for decades but it's very rare that they actually do anything worthwhile.

CHAZAVW · Post by **CHAZAVW** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:21 am

hey marc,

do you know where to get one of the stock plunger and springs??

most places that i checked only sell the booster.... type set....

thanks,
rob

Post by **Marc** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:46 am

CHAZAVW wrote:...do you know where to get one of the stock plunger and springs??

Don't suppose there are many VW shops or wrecking yards in Cleveland, huh?
The plunger is a 113 115 411 and I think the 111 115 421A spring is correct for your case. Do a Google search for those numbers and you should get a few hits.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:35 am

hey marc......

i still need some help.....

i pulled pump last night...... oil galley bores are lined up perfectly...... same size, too......about 10mm on a single relief case.....

pump gears are 19mm.... no major signs of huge wear.... pump cover had a little bit of grooves but nothing to worry about..... pump gears to the oil pump body is almost zero...... i can just feel it with my finger nail.....

i am confused...... why the high oil pressure?? 65 psi at idle...... i will have to get another oil gauge.....

maybe throw it out and get the right case..... any ideas would be great...... i am banging my head against the wall....

Post by **Marc** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 1:03 pm

A stock pump can make 200+ psi at the pump, but a properly-functioning relief system should keep the indicated pressure under ~65psi. Going to a lighter-weight oil could help, but you say you have extreme pressure even after the oil has warmed up so I'm inclined to think something's amiss with the relief system - the dump port may not be big enough to pass enough volume even with a stock spring. If you put in one of those long aftermarket plungers, the spring might even be at coil bind before the dump port is uncovered all the way.

CHAZAVW-itsme · Post by **CHAZAVW-itsme** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:05 pm

so what you say....

go with a stock plunger and spring and see what happens??

you are also telling me to switch oil??? just plain old 30w....

i am so sick of this i am half temted to trash to case and start over.....

ahhh i am getting frustrated.....

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 7:54 am

CHAZAVW-itsme wrote:....go with a stock plunger and spring and see what happens??
you are also telling me to switch oil??? just plain old 30w....

I use 20W-50 myself in the warmer months, and on a cool morning never rev past ~2500 for the first few minutes - but my engine's built on an old case that had marginal lifter bores, with a tight case straight 30 or 10W-40 would be more appropriate most of the year...some guys run even lighter weight than that. The rule of thumb is approximately 10psi per 1000RPM when at operating temperature, more pressure than that is mostly just wasting horsepower.
I also subscribe to the idea of using an oil with a high zinc content in ACVWs, like Kendall GT-1 or Castrol GT-X....just a little extra protection in the event of a momentary loss of pressure.

CHAZAVW - ITS ME · Post by **CHAZAVW - ITS ME** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 5:37 am

I ONLY RUN THE CAR IN THE NICER MONTHS IN CLEVELAND, OHIO.....

I WILL SWITCH TO A ZINC 30W CAUSE SOMETHINGS GOTTA GIVE.....

I LIKE BOTH KENDALL AND CASTROL PRODUCTS.....

LUMPY · Post by **LUMPY** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 4:57 pm

Hey Chaz,
I have an extra single relief piston and spring if you need it...I live near Youngstown.Email me at [email protected] if you want it.
C'Ya
Joe

chazavw-its me · Post by **chazavw-its me** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:32 am

so i changed the oil to the castrol 10w30....this weekend...... pressure was at 60 at idle.....when the car warmed up it dropped down to about 40.....

then the motor had an inconsistent tick...... i took the motor back out..... i found that there was a problem with my fuel pump shaft...... i have an electric pump to go in..... so i can fix that.....

heads off.....flywheel still on..... i want to look at my cam plug....for the extra oil leakage.... i noticed that there was a bit of oil in my trans bellhousing..... i am confused again..... i have a brand new flywheel seal.... the red one.... its german.... am i missing something here..... does it take a rocket scientist to put one of these in....

what is the procedure to do this..... i know that they sell flywheel seal installers..... i just put mine in with a rubber mallet and tapped it in to place....

any ideas that would be good.....

thanks,
rob