Shoptalkforums.com

Jake,

What is the main reason why type 4 engines aren't used as often as type 1's, for drag racing? You would think the stronger type 4 bottom end would be apprecitaed more. Are the heads what's keeping this great engine down? I'm sure people like yourself, Len (HAM, Inc), and Adrian (Headflowmasters) can get them to flow better for drag racing! What's your opinion on this?

Louie

Just not where the engines shine......

TIVs are road race engines, road race engines benefit from stronger bottom ends tremendously as they live at 6-8K RPM for more than 10-12 seconds.

I have not done much with TIV drag engines at all..... Not to say it can't be made to work, but its just not my specialty....

The stock TIV head cannot be made to flow well enough for drag racing and be competitive for any decent figure....

Has anyone ever tried to develop a type 4 head that is similar in design to the type 1? If so, how far away in the future to them being a reality?

The only reason I asked about the drag race type 4 is because I've read about a lot of people in the nordic countires running type 4's with good success.

Louie

That head is in the works right now...... Guess who is doing it....

Sweet! How is that coming along?

Louie

its just slow....alot of factors depend on those who are assisting with it..

Cool! Good luck with it Jake and keep us informed.

Louie

Sorry to crash your thread! In the UK, as part of the Split Screen Van Club there is an elite section called 'Buses With Attitude'. Membership to the club is only open to sub 18sec 1/4 mile splits. Four of the top five fastest splits run type 4's.

Steven Jenkinson, 67 Camper, 2.0l Type 4 w/NOS : 14.8s (York May 03)

Darren Nutting (dasnut), 61 Panel, 2276cc Type 1 : 16.1s (Big Bang 03)

John Neal, 64 Crew Cab, 2.4 Type 4 : 16.1s (Big Bang 03)

Rikki James, 54 Deluxe, 2.6 Type 4 : 16.5s (Bug Jam 02)

Mav, 57 Deluxe, 2.4 Type 4 : 16.9s (Big Bang 03)

Glad to see those numbers.... The US is the mecca of drag racing and the TIV is currently just not competitive for drag race use here at the stage of the game.

I'm wondering Jake, could an engine be built to be used as a bracket racer to say run 12's or 13's? If a 2056 can be built to make 120-130 HP (tops), using the currently available type 4 heads, I don't see why that same engine is installed in a 1500 lbs or less bug that those times couldn't be achieved.

Now being that these engines are good torque-wise, isn't that a good starting point. Torque is what gets that car going and if it can be equal to or almost as equal in HP, could it be possibe rev to about 7K rpm or higher to get the most top end-wise?
Not looking for a Pro Stock racer just a bracket racer for the weekends!

Louie

it is all in the heads for drag racing. i hvae 3 friends in the low 15s to upper 14s in type 1 based busses. 1 wants to go to a type 4 set up but can't spring for a custom set of type 4 heads... they are almost as much as his t1 longblock. if, however, a head shows up what will cross over, i think you will see a market for them.

13s are easy... One of my 2270s will hit 13s.

12s are aklso easy, from a street car... Building 4 now that are are 215HP+ on pump gas

Are both those engine combos 2270's? See that's what I'm talking about, it is possible to make these type 4's competitive for drag racing. It just needs the perfect combo.

So if a 2270 making 215 HP on pump gas can run 12's and still be a reliable street engine and run cool with the DTM then half the battle is won. Can you imagine if you run a little more compression and use race fuel!!! I know not all type 4's can do this but with a good combination of parts and some R&D work (which Jake has already done I imagine), it wont be much longer to see Type 4's giving the Type 1 engine a run for its money at the drag strip.

Now when you finally get your type 4 heads configured to be better flowing like the type 1, I think the sky will be the limit.

Louie

I have always done more research on TIV road race and full time daily drivers than drag racers.... For one I suck at drag racing, for two I like Porsches and they are not drag racers....LOL

The perfect combo is affected by the cylinder heads for a drag race TIV.... When I say drag race I'm talking a dedicated drag car, not streetable at all..... Dual purpose is where I shine with combinations.

Sure, I completely understand. But for a weekend warrior, do you foresee any problems is using a street prep'd type 4 to run 12's or 13's using a 2056 or 2270?

Louie