Ring break-in procedure

Bruce2 · Post by **Bruce2** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 1:52 am

Found this link where they advocate a radical method of breaking in your rings:

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Jake, you tried this? How would that method affect the cam and lifters on a fresh engine?

John W. Kelly · Post by **John W. Kelly** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 2:58 am

Interesting site Bruce. I seem to remember reading somewhere about VW engine break in at the factory... after getting oil pressure they would go WOT.

Rosebob · Post by **Rosebob** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:42 pm

I'd also be interested to see what you guys think about his porting theories.

Class 11 streeter · Post by **Class 11 streeter** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 4:21 pm

I remeber this came up on the 4um a year or so ago. Good discussion came out of it.

The gist of the collective thought was this: If "horsepower boy" (aka motoman) builds engines that win races, and championships, then his methods WORK plain and simple.

I can't find the thread just yet, lots of great stuff in it about the porting tech and there was a story abou how a laymen country boy engine builder that couldn't read could put many engineers to shame in porting a cylinder head that made great power.
He just understood the process of how an engine works better than most people.

I'll keep digging for that thread, it's in the archives somewhere!

Rosebob · Post by **Rosebob** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 4:49 pm

Has anyone tried building a big ACVW with a smaller head?

Class 11 streeter · Post by **Class 11 streeter** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 5:33 pm

Ok, found that thread:
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=47536

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:00 pm

After cam break in I stabilize timing and jetting at 4K, then go straight to redline and hold it there!

Bruce2 · Post by **Bruce2** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 1:36 am

I was reading further into that site and found a bit of a discrepency in my mind. In there they state that Nissan puts every car on a dyno and runs them at high rpm and high load for 3 min.
I remember reading about manufacturing techniques, and one example was Toyota. They have their assembly procedures and quality so well controlled that when the car is finished assembly, they don't even start the cars before shipping them out. There's no need to test them, they know they will all work. Now Toyota is not Nissan, but I find it very hard to believe that Nissan would spend such a phenomenal amount of time (3min) on every car when Toyota doesn't.
When I toured VW in Wolfsburg, they just drive the cars off the line, no dynos. I figure when you are building cars at 4000 per day, you can't spend that much time on every car.
However, at Karmann, they had a couple of dyno cells in the middle of the factory floor. We watched one car for 3-4 minutes. I wasn't there long enough to determine if every car went through this, or just the nth car.

I have a friend who used to work at the shipyards here in Vancouver where ships full of Japanese cars are unloaded. He described the way they are driven off the ships. Standard trans cars are started, then they pull the shifter into second and start off. They run through the ship in second then down the ramps. Then they drive to where they park them, never shifting the whole way, reving the crap out of them. Automatics get the same treatment, but in low gear. My friend didn't think this was a procedure outlined by the manufacturers, he said it was just what the longshoremen wanted to do. Doesn't seem to hurt the cars.

farmer · Post by **farmer** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 1:57 am

The "run in hard" theory has been around for some time, but I think most of us have been reluctant to take it into practice, because it sure does sound hard on a new engine.
but when I think back over the years, I do see a pattern. The most powerfull engines we made in those days, were smaller engines for busses > more load just driving.

I remember one in particular. It was built during the week. Installed and fired up saturday. Fine tuned sunday. Went on holliday down through Europe monday in a high roof bay, weighing about 2,1 ton with people and all the gear.
When they came home 3 weeks later it was time for an oilchange and service. And I remember that it pulled much harder than similar engines we made at the time.
The family also said that they beat much larger engined campers up the hills in Germany and Austria. So there is something about it.

I am now building my own poor mans engine brake out of a Telma brake from a truck.
T.

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:01 am

A new engine is no different than anything else. If your tolerances are there, and the assembly is correct with good parts it'll hold together just fine.

I noticed my power ratings went up a few ponies on my engines when I started doing this, seems that it gets the engine freed up sooner. Things staying tight promotes wear, pulls power and increases temps during break in.

I proudly tell my customers to fire up the engine, check for oil and fuel leaks, take it once around the block, and then go straight to wide open throttle.

The way I look at it, if something is weak in the engine, it'll let go anyway. If you wait 500 miles or wait 5 minutes, it'll still let go.

I would personally rather find the problem before I sped a day on the dyno with it, or before the customer breaks it and it takes a notch off of my reputation.

FYI, I scattered 4 engines last year.... All 4 were due to a weak part that showed up on the dyno. There is no replacement for dyno tuning!

dstar5000 · Post by **dstar5000** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 1:17 pm

John W. Kelly wrote:Interesting site Bruce. I seem to remember reading somewhere about VW engine break in at the factory... after getting oil pressure they would go WOT.

...course, with a 28 PICT, WOT only equalled 4500 rpm.....

Don

Post by **Marc** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:32 pm

The below is from Hastings (you may have heard of them, they make a few piston rings now & then) ...they also subscribe to the hi-load break-in idea, but there's a little more to it, notably the importance of accelerating/decelerating repeatedly during the initial run. Other ring manufacturers like Perfect Circle have similar recommendations.

STARTING PROCEDURE
1. Set tappets, adjust carburetor and ignition timing as accurately as possible before starting engine.

2. Start engine and set throttle to an engine speed of approximately 25 miles per hour (trucks, tractors and stationary engines one-third throttle) until the engine coolant reaches normal operating temperature. Then shut down engine and retorque cylinder head bolts, recheck carburetor adjustments, ignition timing and valve tappet clearance. (Run engine at fast idle during warm-up period to assure adequate initial lubrication for piston rings, pistons and cylinders.)

BREAK-IN PROCEDURE

1. Make a test run at 30 miles per hour and accelerate at full throttle to 50 miles per hour. Repeat the acceleration cycle from 30 to 50 miles per hour at least ten times. No further break-in is necessary. If traffic conditions will not permit this procedure, accelerate the engine rapidly several times through the intermediate gears during the check run. The object is to apply a load to the engine for short periods of time and in rapid succession soon after engine warm up. This action thrusts the piston rings against the cylinder wall with increased pressure and results in accelerated ring seating.

2. Following the breaking-in, turn the vehicle over to the owner or operator with the following suggestions:

PASSENGER CAR AND LIGHT TRUCK
Drive vehicle normally but avoid sustained high speed during the first 100 miles.

(me again) I always specified that sustained high speed driving should be avoided for the first three hundred miles - stay off the freeway if you have a choice, but if you must drive any significant distance vary your speed as much as practical. At 300 miles an oil change, valve adjustment and inspection were mandatory for warranty coverage. Modern engines may well be able to handle more extreme treatment, but with few exceptions there's nothing very "modern" about an ACVW.

Honda's Killer · Post by **Honda's Killer** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:46 pm

What about that "ring seal" Total Seal makes? Its like a paste that breaks the rings in under 5 min. Just a thought.

I just pour a hand full on Metamucil(Laxitive powder) down the carb after sam break in. It really helps keep my motor regular

Mugsy · Post by **Mugsy** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 5:03 pm

I actually have the Total Seal ring break in powder in my engine right now, but its just a longblock(trying to finish it up tonight). I've heard that its not all that great, but I figured I'd give it a shot.

In John Connolly's article on breaking in engines, it goes like this:
1. Cam/lifter break-in: Vary RPM's from 2500 to 4000 for the first 15 minutes...but this is with the engine on an engine stand(or the car in neutral)
2. Change the oil and drive it easy for 100 miles
3. Drive it HARD to seat the rings

Whats the point of step 2?

Thanks,
Andy

JohnConnolly · Post by **JohnConnolly** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 6:24 pm

that's my old procedure (written 5 years ago), and I haven't had the time to update it.

I do the cam break in and ring break in at the same time.

john
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