Page 1 of 3
Ceramic Lifters. The proof is in the pictures.
Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 2:27 pm
by MASSIVE TYPE IV
These pictures represent two SCCA race seasons of extreme abuse, with most of this engine's life at 7000 rpm. Both cam and lifters showed NO MEASURABLE OR VISUAL WEAR!
Ceramics
Camshaft
The damn cam still has the moly spray lube on the lobes in alot of places!!
More details available at
http://www.lnengineering.com/lifters.htm
Absolutely amazing... are they worth the price?? Nope they are worth double the price!
Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 2:40 pm
by EASY RIDER
You can still feel the ridges in the cam from where it was machined. I ran my finger nail across the top of one of the lobes parallel to the cam and could feel that there was NO wear on the cam.
Seeing is believing.
Some times it does not matter if you see something or not because it is so awesome that you have a hard time grasping what you are looking at. All I know for sure is that I am glad this stuff is going in my engine.
Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 3:43 pm
by TKisner
F-in awesome!! Seeing is believing. Hopefully more people will start buying these things.
Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 3:52 pm
by Guest
I think I remember Jake mention that steel sleeving the lifter bore is REQUIRED but I don't see any mention of it on the LN engineering site unless you use the machine-in lightweight version? Could someone clarify?
Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 3:54 pm
by Jason M
Ooops...thats me above ...forgot to log in
Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 4:12 pm
by MASSIVE TYPE IV
Witha Type I with a magnesium case it is required to steel sleeve IMHO, as I had them wipe out a case in 500 miles...
With a Type IV steel sleeving is not necessary, as the case is already tough enough to take the pounding.
Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 4:17 pm
by mharney
So, if they have a lower coefficient of friction, what do they do to the lifter bores that trashes them?
Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 4:31 pm
by MASSIVE TYPE IV
Good question... I'm no metallurgist but all I know is that it wiped mine out in the 2332.. After being sleeved they were just fine..
I always sleeve mine anyway in a TI, just for longevity sakes but this was a test and we left the sleeves out till the first freshen up..
Theceramic is really tough and hard and I'm sure that plays a role in it!
Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 5:24 pm
by mharney
Hmm.. that's interesting. Not only would I have to spend 450 bucks for the lifters, they will trash my case if I don't spend another $120 on sleeves? I wonder why Charles has it advertised as a "drop in" lifter? That sucks!
On the other hand, never having to worry about them would be groovy.
Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 5:40 pm
by cnavarro
Sorry about that Mark. I'm in the process of re-doing the website as you've probably already noticed. I'll make note of the recommending sleeving of the case (if it's mag).
Charles Navarro
LN Engineering
http://www.LNengineering.com
Aircooled Precision Performance
Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 5:57 pm
by MASSIVE TYPE IV
Thats the ONLY area so far that I have seen the new aluminum cases to be better than a mag case...
Hell, what do you expect from somthing that wasmade to be disposable from the factory!!LOL
Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 6:16 pm
by taozen
i saw these too this week. impressive!!!
now show them why i am having to switch to the ceramics jake. talk about opposites.
Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 6:49 pm
by MASSIVE TYPE IV
Zen, the lifter with the hole in the top of it IS YOURS!
Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 7:58 pm
by _INDY_
WOW those lifters dont look like they have any wear at all thats crazy, what about other engine parts made out of this ceramic composite, I don't know the metallurgical properties of this stuff like expansion rates and stuff but seeing as how the lifters didn't wear out @ all wouldn't they make good rings and bearings wouldn't they? or do the substances physical properties not lend it self to do such things? and the fact that the tooling to make somthing new would be extremly high
Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 8:03 pm
by MASSIVE TYPE IV
Alot of this technology is coming over from Formula 1. They are using it for valves and alot of other parts. I have seen retainers, keepers, valves and rocker arms made from it before and of course the lifters.
we are also doing some testing with ceramic coatings that reduce friction and wear for some applications, as well as "diamond like carbon coatings" (
www.diamonex.com) for bearings and some other engine parts...
One test I want to do involves using a previously trashed lifter and regrinding it, then have some coatings used on it to see if it will still fail, or if the coating prevents it!