Jake, you've been looking into the DLC. Is this something that would be used with Cryo? What is the relationship between the results of the two treatments. I am guessing they strengthen in different ways.
Ron
DLC vs Cryo
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MASSIVE TYPE IV
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I spent almost ALL DAY today working with various DLC companies. I came to one conclusion and that was expense!
I finally found one place that was exceptionally interested in what we are doing. Luckily the are located not very far from our Cryo guys, and the cryo guys have worked with them on numerous projects!
The guy that owns the company, just happens to own a 356, so that was a big plus for the aircooled side of things!
I have been learning alot about this, and luckily all the information is being given to us in the same manner from all the people we have talked to. Nothing really thus far had been contradictory! Thats very odd!
I sent parts out today for the Type I test engine. The fist thing we are doing are some Scat lifters. They will have various processes and differnt coatings done to them in pairs and then used in the same engine. Basically one pair of lifters that share the same lobe will have the faces of the lifter done, but not the OD that rides inside the case, another pair will have the entire process done to both surfaces, another pair will have only the OD done, but not the face and finally one set will be cryoed, then coated! Then these will be used in the test 2165 Nickies and squishies engine.... It will be ran hard for 30-40 hours and then torn down and inspected.
I'm right smack dab in the middle of making all this happen and will keep everyone abrest of the news. The main things we want to apply it to are the big end shoulders of rods, lifters, wrist pins,brass dizzy drive gears (they hurt in high RPM TIVs) and in some capacity valve stems.
I talked to several guys today that are running the coating on valve stems and decreasing the guide to stem clearance to .0002"! The friction is reduced so much that the guide can be set that tight and have super support for the valve and it doesn't "egg out" from wobbling. Other than lifters this process done to the valves is the most appealing to me, as its the only thing that would really limits the life of some of my higher end engines.
I plan on testing it on valves in a stock engine with a web 111 cam installed. If you haven't seen a 111 grind cam just imagine lobes sharp enough on the nose to almost cut you! The ramp rate is in the mid 70s and it has 476 lift and only 272 duration. I plan on having the stems coated on 2 valves and run the clearances at .0002. Then run two valves uncoated as we normally would and set to our existing clearance..Then run one pair with the cryo and coating and finally the last pair with another friction coating they use set at the normal clearance...
This engine will then be assembled with terriable rocker geometry, fired up and ran as hard as we can on the dyno for a solid day, then take it apart and just compare! If anything will show the trends, this will be it!
I also want to try just the thrust surfaces of the cam journals... with the 75% reduction in friction it may help guys alot that run crazy spring tensions and wipe out thrust surfaces...
I talked to atleast 15 guys today, and none of them had applied this to a VW or Porsche aircooled engine, not even a 911! The guys that do this stuff are very odd and most not very nice, they are on the leading edge and they know it....
Should have those first parts back within a week! You don't want to know how expensive it is, but their volume breaks were prety good at the shop I decided to trust with this initial work. No matter how hard I tried I could not sweet talk these guys into cutting me a break on the test parts- time to open the wallet AGAIN!...
This is fun, wit till we start testing what it does on the sealing surfaces of valves and seats- they promise me the results are amazing!
I finally found one place that was exceptionally interested in what we are doing. Luckily the are located not very far from our Cryo guys, and the cryo guys have worked with them on numerous projects!
The guy that owns the company, just happens to own a 356, so that was a big plus for the aircooled side of things!
I have been learning alot about this, and luckily all the information is being given to us in the same manner from all the people we have talked to. Nothing really thus far had been contradictory! Thats very odd!
I sent parts out today for the Type I test engine. The fist thing we are doing are some Scat lifters. They will have various processes and differnt coatings done to them in pairs and then used in the same engine. Basically one pair of lifters that share the same lobe will have the faces of the lifter done, but not the OD that rides inside the case, another pair will have the entire process done to both surfaces, another pair will have only the OD done, but not the face and finally one set will be cryoed, then coated! Then these will be used in the test 2165 Nickies and squishies engine.... It will be ran hard for 30-40 hours and then torn down and inspected.
I'm right smack dab in the middle of making all this happen and will keep everyone abrest of the news. The main things we want to apply it to are the big end shoulders of rods, lifters, wrist pins,brass dizzy drive gears (they hurt in high RPM TIVs) and in some capacity valve stems.
I talked to several guys today that are running the coating on valve stems and decreasing the guide to stem clearance to .0002"! The friction is reduced so much that the guide can be set that tight and have super support for the valve and it doesn't "egg out" from wobbling. Other than lifters this process done to the valves is the most appealing to me, as its the only thing that would really limits the life of some of my higher end engines.
I plan on testing it on valves in a stock engine with a web 111 cam installed. If you haven't seen a 111 grind cam just imagine lobes sharp enough on the nose to almost cut you! The ramp rate is in the mid 70s and it has 476 lift and only 272 duration. I plan on having the stems coated on 2 valves and run the clearances at .0002. Then run two valves uncoated as we normally would and set to our existing clearance..Then run one pair with the cryo and coating and finally the last pair with another friction coating they use set at the normal clearance...
This engine will then be assembled with terriable rocker geometry, fired up and ran as hard as we can on the dyno for a solid day, then take it apart and just compare! If anything will show the trends, this will be it!
I also want to try just the thrust surfaces of the cam journals... with the 75% reduction in friction it may help guys alot that run crazy spring tensions and wipe out thrust surfaces...
I talked to atleast 15 guys today, and none of them had applied this to a VW or Porsche aircooled engine, not even a 911! The guys that do this stuff are very odd and most not very nice, they are on the leading edge and they know it....
Should have those first parts back within a week! You don't want to know how expensive it is, but their volume breaks were prety good at the shop I decided to trust with this initial work. No matter how hard I tried I could not sweet talk these guys into cutting me a break on the test parts- time to open the wallet AGAIN!...
This is fun, wit till we start testing what it does on the sealing surfaces of valves and seats- they promise me the results are amazing!
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Plastermaster
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That tight of clearance presents a challange keeping them lubed I would think. If you can close the clearance like that, the next step can be P/Cs. No more piston slap and you can loose the rings! Problem there though would be expansion.
One of these days you are going to come up with an engine that doesn't need any cooling and all your work on the cooling systems will be wasted! LOL. Really...Nikies to loose the heat, squishies to prevent it in the first place, add some frictionless coatings and befor you know it we'll need heaters for your engines!
Ron
Oh, the woobling thing, how about cranks wearing out the T1 cases? maybe another application there since so far the Al T1 case seems lacking.
One of these days you are going to come up with an engine that doesn't need any cooling and all your work on the cooling systems will be wasted! LOL. Really...Nikies to loose the heat, squishies to prevent it in the first place, add some frictionless coatings and befor you know it we'll need heaters for your engines!
Ron
Oh, the woobling thing, how about cranks wearing out the T1 cases? maybe another application there since so far the Al T1 case seems lacking.
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cnavarro
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If you've never used Nickies, piston slap is non-present, if you run anything less than .0025" total clearance; unless otherwise requested by the customer, on bores less than 100mm we run a total clearance less than .0015" (.002" on bores larger than 100mm)
Charles Navarro
LN Engineering
http://www.LNengineering.com
Aircooled Precision Performance
Charles Navarro
LN Engineering
http://www.LNengineering.com
Aircooled Precision Performance
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Plastermaster
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Brian Murray
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