Are you guys having warm up problem, I am??

NextGen · Post by **NextGen** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:36 am

Man if I knew then what I know now, I would have went for flat top pistons, a cam and more power. Not that I don't like my engine and I am sure it is going to last for EVER!! But seeing it is so damn tame it has a real hard time warming up. I am running working flaps and thermo and it takes forever to get it warm, and until it does it runs like crap. By the way I am talking a little below freezing and slightly above today.

You guys have similar problems.

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 12:19 pm

Swap to an earlier fan, pre doghouse... That works very well.

vw505 · Post by **vw505** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 2:52 pm

when i was at cherry point N.C. i would have to tap the gas and idel for about 5 min. then shut it down and let it sit for about 3 to 5 min. after that it would start and run ok. 1835cc with k-dogs.

NextGen · Post by **NextGen** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:19 pm

Jake I never thought of that, great idea.

Thanks,
Joe

Post by **Piledriver** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 4:12 pm

Joe, are you running an oil thermostat?
My sons motor warms up nice. (or at least it did last year, its apart for paint right now...

(admittedly this isn't NY)

Putting the 15w-40 in helped my oil temps, esp the warm up bit.

NextGen · Post by **NextGen** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:48 pm

No oil thermostat the stock T-1 90c thermo and flaps.

Hmmm Oil thermo may be better than Jakes fan idea. First I will have to keep changing the fan for summer and winter. Where as the oil thermo will just open at -- I guess 170 f and it will do that summer or winter.
But on the other hand !!! I know the VW engineers made the stock thermo to fail open. If the oil thermo fails I blow and engine if it does not fail open.

Here we go again, that's why I love this NG, ha.

Joe

Tin Blister · Post by **Tin Blister** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:49 am

I've always wondered how the air flap thermostat was made to fail open. If expanding gas forces the bellows to expand, opening the flaps, what happens when the bellows develop a leak? How does the bellows fail in the expanded position?

NextGen · Post by **NextGen** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:24 pm

Hmmm Never thought about it, just believe VW. I guess they would have some massive lawsuits for false representation. But you have a good point. I would guess, being a metal part it has to expand and aways will. A for it getting a leak, that has nothing to do with how it works. I can have 10 holes in it and still expand. I think it will actually expand faster, less metal to heat. Unless something got in its way from opening..
As for an oil thermo, If it works like a pressure valve on bugs the inner works may fail from a failed spring, dirt or what ever. Maybe???

mharney · Post by **mharney** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:33 pm

The unit is springloaded in design, and that loading is relaxed OPEN (expanded).. When the unit is cold, it is contracted (loaded).

type11969 · Post by **type11969** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:35 pm

if you have an oil thermostat, and it fails, two things could happen. No oil through the cooler, or all the oil through the cooler, right? If not oil goes through the cooler, you will see your oil temps rise (assuming you have a temp gauge) and you can shut off before failure. And if all the oil goes through the cooler, then who cares? Right? Or am I missing a 3rd. If so, I'd like to know about it since I'm running an oil thermo.

Although even with the oil thermostat, it takes a long time for my oil to get up to 180. Like 15 minutes or so of driving in cold weather. And I do have it plumbed correctly, before 180 degrees the lines running from the thermo to the cooler are cold, at 180, they get nice and hot. How long does it take for those of you running oil thermos for you oil to get to 180?

-Chris

Post by **Piledriver** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 1:50 pm

The oil thermostats I was referring to use an automotive type WATER thermostat.. These frequently fail due to corrosion, which isn't likely in this app.

They can fail open OR closed.

If you have an oil temp gauge, failure to open should be obvious. The tstat housing, being thermally isolated by the hoses, is a great place to put the sender.

The good news is if it fails closed, you still have oil flow, and you can just take it easy until the next parts place, or until you find a good place to fix it.

NextGen · Post by **NextGen** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:36 pm

Ok I do not have an oil thermostat and it takes like 15min also to get to running temp. if I am pushing it on the highway. If I am on a side road and it is real cool it will have a hard time getting to 140.

As for the just looking and seeing the oil temp rising and pulling over. FORGET IT!!!!!! I was driving my T-1 1600 with temp gauge on a 6 degrees below ZERO day. It was the year of 18 snow storms in NY. I was on a parkway of two lanes. I noiced my oil light go on, I don't look at the oil temp gauge evey minute. I can't pull off the road the snow has been plowed to 6 feet on each side. I figure at minus 6 I can make it one mile to the exit, WRONG!!! From the time the light went on till the rod came through my block was about 1 minute. I than had to walk 2 miles though fields of snow up to my thighs, till I got to a phone. No Cells at that time.
I was even thinking of putting in a an alarm when the light comes on.
Anyway, it seems to me the stock air over the thermo and flaps have the least chance of failure unless, the Oil thermo is real simple inside and for sure fails open.
But like I said I would think VW would have used it if it was better. Or at least you would think VW would have upgraded. Remember the oil themos were made for extrnal coolers.
Porsche may use one we can use, but we have to know the oil circuit it is in. If it fails it may have a bypass.

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:16 pm

Have the valve covers and sump plate chrome plated on the inside. That helps- VW used it on cars going to the arctic to help get oil temps up..

NextGen · Post by **NextGen** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:23 pm

Jake this is one time I don' t know if you are joking. Chrome plate the inside of those parts?? What does it do reflect the heat back into the engine?

Joe

type11969 · Post by **type11969** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:10 pm

he's not joking, they did do that to the arctic cars. in a sense it probably does reflect the heat back into the engine.