All Aircooled Technology engines to soon feature EFI......

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MASSIVE TYPE IV
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All Aircooled Technology engines to soon feature EFI......

Post by MASSIVE TYPE IV »

Thats right!
I just got an email back from Dave Carlson and he has agreed to meet my demands for enough of his systems to outfit ALL my engines by mid Spring 05!

I strive to make our engines the most advanced and modern and its hard to do that with Carbs these days. I have wanted to do this for a great while but with the Weber shortage upon us and no real hope for GOOD carbs in the future(EMPI is supposedly going to repop Weber carbs) I have decided to take the plunge on every engine that leaves my shop.

More than likely we will offer Dave's system on the smaller engines (Below 2563) and have an option for the Autronic system on the more advanced "Super Hero" powerplants.

What this means is that we will end up producing a complete video to accompany all the engines to go over in car tuning step by step and also troubleshooting. The engines will be tested with the system installed but as always some mapping will be a must in the car as well and the video will take that guesswork out of things. I may even add a bite of video onto each tape that accompanies the engine to show that customers engine on the dyno and some specific traits of that particular engine for tuning. Since we will be running all the components in the kit during the dyno session all bugs can be worked out before the customer even starts the install! Once the engine is installed it will only take a couple of hours in the car to smooth out the maps and make the engine even more drivable.

I only have 8 sets of Weber carbs left on my shelves and when those are gone the chance of a crabureted MassIVe engine may be history forever! I only plan on running carbs on race spec engines that are bound by rules to run carbs....

We are still working on a plenum based system for the DTM, but it is taking mucho time to complete. There is a good possibility that all engines built in 2005 will receive I/R throttle bodies, either CB or Jenvey according to your budget.

So.... If you are one of those 37 customers of mine on the wait list be prepared to enter the world of Fuel Injection! I have enough carbs to finish up the engines that we have proposed already, but none of the others that will follow after those. If any of you absolutely do not want EFI you will be forced to source your own carbs and supply them to me- All new customers added to the wait list after 4-1-05 won't have that opportunity, its all FI for those guys.

This is a big step for the engine shop and one that I'm sure will help us prosper even more as no other engine company offers FI as a standard on everything they build. I know everyone is wondering about cost.... I'll be crunching numbers on that one later but with the cost of some of our parts dropping through higher volumes of sales through the store it will all even out well.

My Kit Carlson system in the 912 has just hit 12K miles since its install in July and I have made ONE adjustment to it in that time- It works.
Last edited by MASSIVE TYPE IV on Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Wally
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Post by Wally »

Cool! Very good decision if you ask me :wink:
This is indeed a major step and one which will start more people thinking about installing EFI!

Best regards,
Walter
T4T: 2,4ltr Type 4 Turbo engine, 10.58 1/4 mi
www.apfelbeck.nl
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
paul_f
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Post by paul_f »

Great plan Jake, but I would advise being cautious about allowing customers to play about too much with the mapping.

I would adive getting Dave to set up the system to prevent the end user increasing the timing or reducing the fuelling to much across the rev range - a map that is only accessible by the calibration tool you use.
MASSIVE TYPE IV
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Post by MASSIVE TYPE IV »

Thanks Wally...

I hope to be able to help more people do EFI installs through vast experience that I will be attaining with setting up all types of engines with FI as well....We will also gain a ton of MAPs to aid with those who buy the system from us without a complete engine.. The guys that purchase an engine kit will benefit from this BIG TIME if they do EFI since I can send them screen captures to set the entire system up themselves.
ratwell
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Re: All Aircooled Technology engines to soon feature EFI....

Post by ratwell »

MASSIVE TYPE IV wrote:I only have 8 sets of Weber carbs left on my shelves and when those are gone the chance of a crabureted MassIVe engine may be history forever! I only plan on running carbs on race spec engines that are bound by rules to run carbs....

If any of you absolutely do not want EFI you will be forced to source your own carbs and supply them to me.
Are these carbs going out of style or out of production?
MASSIVE TYPE IV
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Post by MASSIVE TYPE IV »

Already out of production.....

No one knows exactly for how long but I'm treating it like a very serious issue and making my switch away from them primarily now.....

Nothing wrong with carbs at all... If they were not 1K bucks wholesale now I'd still be using them...
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Plastermaster
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Post by Plastermaster »

With carbs soon to be in high demand, I guess I could let you keep my Dells for The EFI. :wink: LOL

Ron
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Tom Notch
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Post by Tom Notch »

I sold my last set of carbs a long time ago, the only carbed item left at my homestead is the lawn mower (and it has carb troubles!).

If ya need any input on systems and layout, I may be able to advise.
Tom

Tom's Old VW Home
DVKK
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MASSIVE TYPE IV
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Post by MASSIVE TYPE IV »

Tom,
I'll probably get with you on that...
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samcat
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Post by samcat »

:D Excellent news Jake. Modern tech has a lot to offer our older engines.

I will be looking for an EFI setup for the engine kit I just bought from you, but it wont be for a year yet... :)

Cheers,
SAm C
ʇɐɔɯɐs
MASSIVE TYPE IV
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Post by MASSIVE TYPE IV »

All day today I have been doing reasearch on injectors and etc and even different FI systems.
Mikey373

Post by Mikey373 »

Sounds good Jake!!.......With the increase of production of Kit's Fi's.... is there any chance of a price decrease?? Also is the Fi package for $1400 the one that will fit right into the D-jet plumbing??

Thanks,
mike
MASSIVE TYPE IV
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Post by MASSIVE TYPE IV »

Yes, thats the one....

I don't see the price of that system dropping much if any. The profit margin on it is already at rock bottom to be able to sell it.
ratwell
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Post by ratwell »

MASSIVE TYPE IV wrote:Already out of production.....

No one knows exactly for how long but I'm treating it like a very serious issue and making my switch away from them primarily now.....

Nothing wrong with carbs at all... If they were not 1K bucks wholesale now I'd still be using them...
Have you emptied www.piercemanifolds.com of their remaining stock?
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raygreenwood
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Post by raygreenwood »

Excellent...excellent...excellent. IMHO....the carbs just need to die. Nifty...fun...yes they are, but if we are going to continue driving and improving...as a populace, we need to get with the picture.

Yes, I primarily work with and modify...heavily, factory injection....and then again I can get it to do things, gas milage and HP wise that many people can't. A lot of that is just patience and working specific applications well suited for the ranges teh injection can be modified to.

But to the point....what it does prove....and this is also a personnal observation, ...many people get way too hung up in making their mapping way too complex. Once the baseline operating range for the engine configuration and vacuum/airflow signature is found....and.....IF...IF,.... fuel supply, system voltage and ignition advance are STABLE in their range of operation (something a lot of people ignore)...then there is less reason to build complicated mapping to keep over correcting for their constant rate of change.

The most needed mapping changes, outside of having to correct for poorly sized injectors, or compensating for heat banking that should have been DESIGNED out of the engine from the start (which Jake slaves to do correctly)...and most primarily....fuel pressure/volume fluctuations.......
outside of these base problems....you should only have to correct for gross changes in ambient operating temperature. IE...if you tuned it in New Jersey in February...and are spending teh summer in Dallas...there may some range issues. The initial tuning changes for variances in driving style and gear ratios...are a given. Some people simply buying an engine with FI....may be slaving it to tranny's whose gearing not only is not well for the engine configuration/torqueband...but also gives issues to fine tuning of the injection. But these are not reasons to be driving around with a laptop. Just my 2 cents. Congrats Jake! Good work. Ray
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