Some clearification over winter driving

[Gouie]

Hi guys,

I just looking for some clearification and perhaps some first hand experience with winter driving. I'm looking at purchasing a beetle for my wife but the only hang up is the heating system. We average -20 celcius in the winter and I'm wondering how she will be able to cope.

I understand that there are two popular heating systems; heater boxes and gas heater. If I understand correctly, the gas heater is used as a pre-heat prior to driving. It has a timer that shuts it off after x minutes and can not be restarted, nor is it recommended that the gas heater be used while driving. Once warm and on your way you switch to the heater boxes. Am I correct here? I have heard not so good things about the heater boxes in that they are not very warm in the cold weather and the defrost is lowsy at best.

If I am correct here is there anything else a guy can do to produce a little more heat? Is there a 12V electric heater that can be used?

Thanks for helping the newb.

[neil68]

there has been a lot of misinformation about Beetle heating systems, probably due to people not keeping the stock heater boxes and hoses in good condition. I have driven Beetles since 1974...and they were my only means of transportation up until about 4 years ago (my wife also drove one when our kids were younger).

1. There is plenty of heat from the heater boxes ONCE the engine is warmed up (5-7 minutes). A story for you: we drove from Calgary to Winnipeg at Christmas one year and one of our heater cables broke, which left the heat on all the time. We had to crack the window open to avoid getting too hot, as there was so much heat pouring out of the vents...this was at minus 20 Celcius.

2. City driving: the Eberspaecher gas heater is very helpful at minus 20 as it will cycle on and off until the heater boxes can produce enough heat to warm the cabin.

One tip, crack a window open just a 1/4-inch to let the warm air get into the cabin.

Make sure your heater boxes are good or buy new ones. Check the large flexible plastic hoses to the cabin and the cardboard hoses from the fan shroud to the heater boxes. You do not want to have air leaks.

Also, invest in a block heater so that you can start every morning with warm oil in the crankcase!!

Good luck!

Neil

[Bugfuel]

A gasoline heater is a MUST in the winter. It runs as long as you allow it to run, DURING DRIVING.

It works totally independent of anyt other fucntion, engine doesn't need to be running but it can. There is no sense in shutting the heater off when you are driving, it's insane.


SOME gasoline heaters, typically the factory or dealer installed "stock" units in the type 4 cars (411, 412) are more of an auxiliary helper heater, connected inline with the heat exchangers.


MOST are standalone units that have nothing to do with the heat exchangers. They are mounted in the trunk (front), and they blow hot air directly in the cabin, or you can soplice the output into factory heat channels behind the dash.

Jan

[Gouie]

That is exactly what I wanted to hear. So there is no timed shut off of the gasoline heater that you are aware of?

I'm looking at a '74 with a gas heater. Would that be an aftermarket install or did they come from factory this way?

[Bugfuel]

>That is exactly what I wanted to hear. So there is no timed shut off of the
>gasoline heater that you are aware of?

There's just an overheating failsafe shut-off for the gasoline feed. Some models just shorted the power fuse so the fuse for the fuel pump blew.
Some had a resettable thermo switch. Some had an automatic thermo switch that reset itself.

There are MANy manufacturers and models out there.

I have first hand experience with different models of Eberspacher, Bacho and Webasto. Definitely not timed. The Bacho had a manual timer "clock" that opened and closed the circuit at any chosen time, but it could also be bypassed for instant, constant running.

There's also Stewart-Warner, Southwind, Espar (?) and a few others.



>I'm looking at a '74 with a gas heater. Would that be an aftermarket
>install or did they come from factory this way?[/quote]

Never from the factory (save frop 411 and 412 ) but they might have been dealer installed when new.

Jan

[Gouie]

Appreciate the information, my thawed fingers will thank you!

[neil68]

Gouie,

I've owned two '74 standard Beetles and both had the Eberspaecher gas heater mounted in the front luggage compartment. They have a thermoswitch which cycles the fan on and off as needed. I seem to recall that this also helps prevent overheating and improved glowplug life.

To shut the gas heater off completely, you must push the dash button back in, otherwise the gas heater will keep cycling on and off.

My personal experience is that only on the coldest days, do you really need to keep the gas heater cycling. Once your motor has warmed up, the heater boxes do a decent job. Another tip is to keep your rpm's up, so that the fan can pump heat into the cabin from the heater boxes.

By the way, do you belong to the Air Riders Club in Edmonton? I've been to their End of Summer show a couple of times over the years!

Neil.

[Can Drive Soon]

Run thinner oil in winter. Hold clutch in so it doesnt turn the trans. Less strain

[Gouie]

That's great to know, thanks!

Actually, I'm not a member ... yet. This will be my first beetle and I'm really looking forward to it. I've spent quite a bit of time on their forum, looks like a great group of guys!

So you've been to the big city have you? Hope the weather was good for you, can't seem to remember a summer over the past few that's the weather's been half decent. We haven't broken 20 in the last 3 1/2 weeks!

[3mta3]

This is a good subject for me, too. Is it possible to use a much cheaper heater, like a small propane camper heater? And I thought that the tension on the cables kept heater boxes open? So no tension would mean no heat, correct? Reason I ask is that my boxes lack the part the cables hook to and was thinking about wiring them open all the time and so producing heat on all the time (or so I thought). Really don't mean to hijack this thread...

[3mta3]

This is a good subject for me, too. Is it possible to use a much cheaper heater, like a small propane camper heater? And I thought that the tension on the cables kept heater boxes open? So no tension would mean no heat, correct? Reason I ask is that my boxes lack the part the cables hook to and was thinking about wiring them open all the time and so producing heat on all the time (or so I thought). Really don't mean to hijack this thread...

[Gouie]

No on hands experience here but I can tell you I investigated what you're speaking of. I have used the heaters in the past (for their intended purpose) and I don't think I'd want to use it in this scenario. My reasoning would be safety. The outer incasement gets extremely hot with no fully inclosed area like the gas heater. If you could find a way to mount it safely to prevent it from tipping I'm not sure it would produce the heat needed at -20. Not to mention you would need a way to push the air in to the cabin. (I would definately steer away from putting the heater in the cab. The exhaust fumes would be deadly).

Not what you wanted to hear I know but hope that helps.

[3mta3]

OK, I hear you...BUT...I have never even used one but my car is a squareback and IF I could mount it safely, say bolt the housing to the rear luggage compartment and crack a window as suggested to draw air up front would fumes be deadly? I know about CO2 buildup, but my understanding is that these units are designed for enclosed spaces such as a tent or small camper and utilize a catalytic converter that makes them safe in terms of fumes. Is this incorrect?

[Gouie]

I've done a little research into the heaters made specifically for tents and it looks like you are correct. They are made to limit the amount of fumes it produces. I would still crack a window to allow for fresh air and to help pull the heat to the front.

I'm still a little confused as to where you want to mount it, in the cab or in the front trunk?

[3mta3]

My car is a t-3 squareback, like a small station wagon. It has a rear cargo area, a flat deck about 3x3' behind rear seat. I just moved from FL with it and my blood is thin, so I don't know much about how much heat I'll need here in W Colorado but I assume a lot