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How do they rate against the old Johnsons?



Don

They are made on the "Topline" casting blank..

The Topline blank is made in China and its known for porosity- I have seen the porosity issues the blanks have after the lifters were half gone in the spintron after about an hour of run time..

Ha, China, ha.

Can Drive Soon wrote:Ha, China, ha.

Don't laugh, Big Business has invested YOUR retirment into China.
Three months ago, Ford sent 5 BILLION to China. Now they are
looking into laying workers off ,because they don't have to funds
to pay them.

IF they had KEPT that 5 billion, they WOULD have enough to pay their people....

You should learn to SPEAK Chinese, as THEY are the next world power.

As soon as the US turns it's back on Taiwan and lets the Chinese take over Taiwan, that will establish the CHINESE as the next superpower,
with the backing of US Big Business, the American citizen will become
the SAME as a Roman citizen of old.

Do YOU know of any Roman citizens?


I rest my case.

Don

What did people think their Offshore Mutual Fund dollars
were being used for ?

Asia Growth Fund ? Let's put our money there.
Great idea.Now it's coming back to bite us all.


Sorry for the political/economic digression.

If you didn't know, I don't give nothing for ford, I like Chevys and VWs, and yes I know GM isnt the best company either. But usually the quality of chinese items are usually.....questionable. I always buy USA or European as much as I can. I don't support those commies. OF course there are some chinese compaines that produce decent items, but it also seems that our market has been flooded with Chapinese junk.

This sums it up pretty good i think.

Don't despair so much. Yes...China will be the next superpower. Make that...they are already a superpower and will get more equal in footing.
Yes...the Chinese generally have huge quality issues in their products. But...they are....and have shown to be capable of making high quality products. They simply do not have the quality control "ethic"....in place yet.
They are busy importing that ethic.
Two people from my company just got back from Shanghai. They went...to give QC direction.....to the factory that makes some of our stainless parts.

Having been in some 2800 factories in the past 15 years...I see the trend and the curve.
Here are some points on that curve.

(1) The Chinese as evidenced by their rate of import of fuel, technology and personnel....are growing their infrastructure....and the education base of their populace...at a rate that far eclipses what the US did....between 1875 and 1945 (the golden years).
What that is causing.....is a profound growth and upgrade of both the standard of living of the people in China.....as well as a sharp rise in the cost of doing business there.
This same phenomena...has already made Taiwan, Sinapore and the Philippines (and others)....almost too expensive to go and start a factory in...unless what you need to manufacture can be easily re-tooled on an existing line.
As they get more well off...and better educated.....the people demand higher wages. Its already happening.

Its a pendulum...and it always swings back.

(2) Quality ethic....takes a couple of generations to instill...just ask the Germans.
Right now...what "WE" should be worrying about...is doing the things we do best.....in the most efficient....and highest quality manner we can.

(3) The trend toward having things for cheaper...and swallowing your pride on a bit of the quality...really started to hit hard around 1993....in this country. We...as American consumers.... likes our trinkets for cheap...and are willing to forgo some quality to make sure that out Wal Mart experience is profitable. At least thathas been teh trend.

(4) that trend is changing toward an upswing right now. People are getting back on the curve toward being willing to spend a little more money on quality.....and demanding quality up front.

(5) I just saw this in the paper yesterday (dallas mornings...sub head on front page). Last year...China produced close to 200,000 engineers from their schools. We produced 73,000.

Last year in the Phillipines....the company I was working for (an American company)...took applications for over 4000 engineers in one week (Filipino engineers). The line went down the block. They all spoke perfect English...and Tagalog...and some spoke Japanese as well......and their quality was excellent.

The pendulum will swing back...the playing field will get level. Will we be ready to work hard when it comes back to us?

Think about this. Our pay rates for assembly line technicians for Ford, GM etc....are how much?!!! Why? Because to have the things a general life contains in the USA....and keep up with the Jonses...and to stay on the good side of the Unions.....we pay our workers...anywhere from $25-65 an hour in the Automotive arena.

How many televisions does your house have? How many computers? How many cars in your family? How many toys, new electronics, luxury items...etc etc. etc.?
Most of my European friends..marvel...and laugh.... at how much "stuff"...most Americans own...and how much our lifestyles cost even in the middle and lower classes.

As evidenced by the "cold sweat" induced by the most recent spate of high fuel prices.....the lifestyle change contemplations....and the fear that your job may be outsourced.....I predict..a great "recconing" in this country over the next decade. People need to start thinking about theeducation of their children....living with less junk...needing to earn a little less money to be happy....and having a little better quality ethic...about what it is we make for the rest of the world. When the pendulum swings back...we can be ready.

By the way.....Both Honda and Toyota...just contracted to begin manufacturing their hybrid cars....in China....this week. They will be for sale in China, the far east...and Europe.
They learn fast for a pack of low quality wanna-be's dont they? Ray

The pendulum thign are you saying after the wages in china get heigh work will come back to the US?

Yes. The wage rates affect the bottom line. Employee salaries are the single most expensive daily/monthly/weekly ticket item in any business. Add to that...the costs of attracting new customers and getting the product to the docks (that would be the new infrastructure ...like roads, rails, bridges, factories, gas feeder lines, power lines and powerplants)......and it gets to be almost as expensive to manufacture 7000 miles away and ship in.

The higher the fuel costs stay...the faster the playing field will get leveled.
Fuel costs hit china as well as us. It makes products more expensive, leaves a smaller part of the pie for wages, makes raw materials more expensive and generally makes running a factory more expensive.....and...makes shipping in cheap Chinese goods more expensive.
I'm all for $70 a barrel oil.

It does not even have to get level really (the playing field).....all it has to do is get closer. Close the gap.
Add to that....a trend toward wanting quality goods again....and its less profitable to import a marginally cheaper but clearly inferior product.

But the key is....are we making the quality product when the parity is reached? Ray

Wow Ray I have now found some one else who understands.

Stew on this one folks.
The price of the worlds metals have at the minimum doubbled, titanium is up 700%. ALL scrap metal in this world is being sent to China, Why? They have 1.5ish billion people and are starting there industrial revolution.
The scary part is look at the technoligy level of when America had its industrial revolution and look at the tech level at the start of China's

Hope every one is ready for the oldest society on the planet to make it self known in a big way.

And when the wages in China get too high,
like they did in Japan,
they will just find somewhere else cheaper.


Anyone remember the movie Other Peoples Money,with Danny Divito ?
It has come true.

Yes!....they will find someone cheaper! But...they are fast running out of continents and countries.
Not only does a place have to have cheaper labor...it must have close-by natural resources, be accessible by land , air and sea, must have hospitable trade laws and some semblence of a stable government....and must not be at war with its neigbors.
Lastly...it also has to have a willing and educated populace.

Russsia, parts of eastern Europe ....are the last bastions.

When they start looking for someone cheaper....we better be ready.

I keep using the word "they". Thats because anymore, companies are not "American" or "European". They are simply entities. Ray

raygreenwood wrote:Yes!....they will find someone cheaper! But...they are fast running out of continents and countries.
Not only does a place have to have cheaper labor...it must have close-by natural resources, be accessible by land , air and sea, must have hospitable trade laws and some semblence of a stable government....and must not be at war with its neigbors.
Lastly...it also has to have a willing and educated populace.

Russsia, parts of eastern Europe ....are the last bastions.

When they start looking for someone cheaper....we better be ready.

I keep using the word "they". Thats because anymore, companies are not "American" or "European". They are simply entities. Ray

There's the reason China is making its influence (and $$) felt in Africa...
Promoting stable goverments is good for buisiness.
(OTOH, so is replacing unfriendly ones)

Contrary to popular belief, not everyone on the African continent starves in the desert, and there are locales with amazing natural resouces.