HOW DO YOU POSITION GAPS ON OIL RING/WHY THE GREEN AND RED ?

[eric77super]

i'M PUTTIN IN 87 MM SLIP INS IN MY TYPE 1 AND THE PISTONS CYLINDERS AND RINGS ARE CIMA MAHLE.

i UNDERSTAND THAT THAT THE 2 COMPRESSION RINGS ARE TO BE PLACED APART AND THE OIL RING GAP IS SUPPOSED TO BE ON THE TOP-SO FAR SO GOOD. QUERY; WHAT IS THE RED/GREED COLOR DESIGNATION MEAN ON THE OIL RING (GOES ON TOP I HOPE) and THE OIL RING IS ACTUALLY 2 PARTS WITH 2 GAPS, DO THEY LINE UP OR ONE IN THE RED AND ONE IN GREEN OR ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO BE SEPARATED AND IF SO HOW MUCH DISTANCE OR DEGREES APART?
i didn't put the heads on so i can still get in there if i didn't do it right.

ERIC IN NJ

[1955cc66bug]

The green and red are there so you DO NOT OVERLAP THEM. I put the colors on the top. the top two rings I put the gaps just above the wrist pin, opposite from each other of course. And the oil ring gaps just up from the compression ring gaps. do not overlap any of the ring gaps.

[eric77super]

For example Wilson @ pg.132 says place compression rings about opposite but not lined up with piston pin. He says oil ring gaps face up and multi piece oil rings gaps are staggared OK SO FAR.

The Haynes Manual @ pg.2-36 simply says to stagger the ring gaps around the Upper 180 degrees of each piston the the oil control ring gap facing up

The Bentley Manual @ pg. 26 says stagger the ring gaps at 90 degrees but with oil ring gap up.

Another site for VW piston and Cylinder Instal says top ring 1 oclock, secons ring 7 oclock, top oil ring 11 and bottom oil @ 5 oclock-I'm not kidding [i THINK THEY'RE WRONG ] SEE www.greatplainsas.com/ip&c.html

WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST FOR ORIENTATION OF THE FIRST TWO RINGS And THEN THAT THIRD (bottom) OIL RING-especially how and where to to place the top and bottom rings OF THE OIL RING ASSEMBLY ( called "rails" at DEVES )see http:www.deves.com/oilring_inst.html
and , finally what the hell are those red and green markings on the CIMA MAHLE
Oil Rings about???

Here's what I did assimilating all this ::::: Top Ring at about 9:30, Second Ring about 2:30 (this in keeping them all above the upper 180 degrees per Haynes.) I then placed the upper Oil Ring Rail at about 11 oclock ('cause they gotta be near the top) and staggered the lower Oil Ring Rail at about 1 o'clock.

SOMEBODY Please Tell me how it's really done and help me with those Green/Red colors-they gotta mean something!

Thanks ERIC IN NEW JERSEY

[Marc]

...SOMEBODY Please Tell me how it's really done and help me with those Green/Red colors-they gotta mean something!

The green and red are there so you DO NOT OVERLAP THEM...

That's all - you're supposed to be able to see both colors - much easier to see than the ends of the expander butted up against each other.
The ring gaps are pretty much going to travel to wherever they please in operation, your mission is just to get them staggered initially, and there's more than one "right" way to do that.
Personally I put the expander gap up and the scraper rails to either side of it by ~1½", then put the compression ring gaps ~120° away (4:00/8:00). Basically what you've done but spread apart a little more...but your way should be OK, I wouldn't take it back apart to change it - assuming you're positive you didn't overlap the expander

[eric77super]

I went thru some old VW Mags and the One from February 1998 says to place the each compression ring at about 5 and 7 oclock and the 2 scraper ring gaps around 10 and 2 --like a big x. It also says to NOT use synthetic oil during breakin which I was gonna do but Now I wont.

THANKS EVERYONE FOR REPLIES

[Marc]

...the One from February 1998 says to place the each compression ring at about 5 and 7 oclock...

Like I said earlier, the gaps will likely move on there own in operation but that's too close IMO for initial position - they should be 120° to 180° apart.
There's more than one "right" way, just don't grossly violate this concept:
The piston ring gaps should be evenly distributed around the circumference of the piston, staggered at intervals of approximately 120°.

4-piece oil rings (those with a separate expander & spacer) have their gaps positioned 90° apart:
http://www.deves.com/oilring_inst.html
...personally I displace the compression ring gaps ~120° from the upper oil scraper ring's gap with this setup, but I doubt that it really matters much.

Once again, don't lose a lot of sleep over this. The important issues are that the rings be right-side-up and in the correct grooves, you should never "spiral-on" a compression ring as this can warp it, and that you don't allow the ends of the oil control ring expander to overlap.
http://www.diagnosticengineers.org/Page%20B5-37.htm

It also says to NOT use synthetic oil during breakin which I was gonna do but Now I wont....

That's the conventional wisdom, it may or may not be as big a deal as some make of it.
http://www.stealth316.com/2-breakin.htm
Personally I don't use synthetic for break-in simply because it's too expensive IMO for only 300 miles' use - there are good conventional oils out there (Castrol & Kendall to name two) that'll work just fine.

[seahag]

Marc, I've been told that using synthetic oil for break in was a no/no because it is so slippery that the rings won't seat. Is this fact or an old wives tale? I was told to wait 5000mi. the make the switch. What say you?

[Marc]

Did you read the last link I posted above? Several new cars now come with synthetic oil in them from the factory and they seem to have no ring break-in problems...but as noted in that article, they may have come up with an ideal cylinder wall finish/ring composition that's compatible with synthetic...nobody's talking.
My opinion is that it can't do any harm using (a good) conventional oil for breakin, and there must be some anecdotal evidence behind the advice to not use synthetic - so use the conventional for the initial fill and at least one change after that, and spend the savings on beer.

[fogey]

I have assembled many, many engines, water and air cooled over the last forty years. I usually just went by what the manufacturer suggests, typically that the two compression rings should be 120-180 degrees apart. I would put the oil spacer rings (the wiggly crooked one) in first with the red and green colors touching then the bottom scraper then the top spacer these three compnents 120 degrees apart and always made sure there was oil behind all the rings and a light coat of oil on the cylinders, use a cheap foam paint brush. I do know that once that engine fires the rings will break in almost instantaneously and after that the rings will rotate around the piston for the rest of that engines life. the gap positions are really out of our control so don't agonize about it that much. Installing rings looks like one of those things that can go really wrong but rarely ever does. I've never had a piston ring set go bad except for hundreds of thousand of miles. BTW rings don't wear out, cylinders do.