Type 1 conversion

[mightymanx]

I am putting a type 1 2110 into my 74 bay and I am asking you folks if there is anything I am leaving off my check list. My major concern is wiring for the type 1 alternator from the type 4 (I suck @ wiring).
So far I have :

1. Carb linkage and intake manifolds 1/3 manifold is tapped for brake booster

2. I have the adaptor tin for the engine bay cutout

3. I know about the .500 thou needed to come off the tranny spline shaft.

4. I have a 200mm flywheel and clutch.

5. rear engine brace I need to install and mock up for the universal case (is that a hard mount or use the motor mounts for type 4)

6. I have full flow, filter, oil thermostat and a external cooler.

Anything else that will bite me or is that it?

Thanks in advance Dan

[BugBite]

can i ask why you are putting a type 1 engine in it?? nothing wrong with the 1.8 that came with it...i think 74 was when they started putting the 1.8 in them...

[Marc]

Type IV engines have the rubber rear mounts between the case and the rear hanger cross-bar; Type I (and III) have their cross-bar bolted directly to the case and so need rubber mounts at the outboard ends between the cross-bar and the body. Euro `72-up buses with Type I engines have a unique cross-bar and different brackets bolted to the body to carry the mounts - parts which are virtually impossible to find over here.
When I switched my bay to Type I power I had a Euro cross-bar which I welded tabs to so it'd bolt up to shortened mounts from a Type III (I torched out the sections of the Type III body which surround the mounts, and made my own body brackets with the Type III chunks welded into them). This has worked well, but it's certainly not the only way you could go about it. For example, you could make your own cross-bar (either from scratch or by lengthening one from a III) and some body brackets that'd come below it with Ford motor mounts between - the type that're just a rubber cylinder with a stud sticking out of both ends.

Rather than chop the trans input shaft off it's pretty simple to just replace it with one from a `68-`71 II trans.

[mightymanx]

What I was thinking of doing was making a plate that bolts to the case on either side of the oil pump in those 2 holes on the universal cases and then using the stock type 4 bar as a brace I was just wondering if that can be ridgid or should I put some kind of rubber mounts and then put tabs on the plate? I dont know yet if the type 4 crossbar will be close enough to be directly under that plate yet or if there is going to be some fore and aft offset. I am taking next week off to do the swap. I am just waiting for some parts to complete the engine assembly (oil cooler etc.) then the fun begins .

Thanks Marc
Dan

PS to Bug Bite, Type 1 engines you can get parts that don't suck or cost a fortune. I did this 2110 for $2400 done. Try to get that power and torque in a type 4 for that dough with new parts. No matter how hard I tried I am still not a type 4 convert after 4 type 4 engines IMO they suck. I take no ill with any one who loves the type 4 it just has never worked for me.

[Marc]

... I dont know yet if the type 4 crossbar will be close enough to be directly under that plate yet or if there is going to be some fore and aft offset...

I don't either, I've never tried that approach (but I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work). A solid mount would certainly function but it'd transfer noise/vibration to the body - IMO having rubber mounts (inboard or outboard) is worth the extra effort.
The engine/trans would be held UP by the bellhousing mounts, but they're too close together to handle the torque reaction. Inboard rear mounts have the same problem - the Type I/III arrangement puts less stress on the rubber due to the greater mechanical advantage of the outboard mounts.

[Chris V]

I have to add we've currently got my upcoming 1995cc (88X82 Type I) bus engine on the stand, shouldn't be too much longer...shoot, this one is a pretty nice engine - mild but nice, and it's coming together pretty cheaply. I won't be surprised if it's more fun in a straightline than my 912E...but then again my ten-speed already comes close.

[mightymanx]

upcoming 1995cc (88X82 Type I)

I have always wondered what a basically square engine would do you got me curious now. Hope it works should have gobs of torque that was what I tried to do on mine 7.0-1 compression its getting 34ict's small heads and exhaust, 100 cam. What I tried to do is get tons of torque from 0-3500 rpm, its a westy bus I don’t care if it falls on its face at 4000 rpm I am not going to take it that high.

Thanks for the help Marc and Chris I'll let you guys know how it goes.

Dan

[Marc]

My major concern is wiring for the type 1 alternator from the type 4...Anything else that will bite me or is that it?...

Have you figured out the wiring yet? It was many years ago when I converted mine (to Type I generator) but I don't recall it being much of a challenge - and alternator should be even easier. Where are you located?
Is your Type I alternator internally or externally regulated? (internally regulated have only one push-on terminal, externally have three).

I recall having a little difficulty with the throttle cable and its Bowden tube...I think I just used `71 II parts, can't remember if modifying the existing cable was an option. There'll be some minor issues like plumbing the charcoal canister (if you even use it) but I can't think of anything else.

[mightymanx]

I am in Bremerton. It is a 95 amp internaly regulated bosch (Planing for dual batteries and an inverter later) I haven't figured it out yet still have to pull the old engine out. I am not putting any emissions on it j tubes headder and 34 ICT's ddn't think about the throttle cable thanks for the
tip.

Dan

[Marc]

It is a 95 amp internaly regulated bosch...

Should be a piece of cake. B+ (the big output wire) from the IV alternator connects to B+ on the new one. You can take out the regulator and the wires between it and the IV alternator (or leave it there where it won't get lost); all you need to do is extend the blue wire that went to D+ on the IV regulator (and from there to the alternator via a red wire) from the car's harness (Term 61, goes up to the warning light) and connect it to the D+ terminal on the new alternator. Note this wire also goes to the heater blower fan control relay so that it only comes on if the alternator is putting out - if you'll be removing the fan, you won't need the relay or its wires either. If you expect to ever be going back to IV power you should leave as much of this stuff in place as possible to simplify the operation....at least take some good pictures.

[mightymanx]

You have been upgraded to hero status Marc thanks my brain was starting to hurt loking @ diagrams. I have a mental block when it comes to VW wiring.

[Chris V]

upcoming 1995cc (88X82 Type I)

I have always wondered what a basically square engine would do you got me curious now. Hope it works should have gobs of torque that was what I tried to do on mine 7.0-1 compression its getting 34ict's small heads and exhaust, 100 cam...

We put in a W-100 too (Web 111 lobes were too close to the CW's on the crank!), 7.5:1 CR, mildly ported 40x35.5 heads, probably twin 40 or 42 DCNF's (but just maybe ICT's, PDSI's, Kadrons, or IDF's ), and a 1-3/8" header with heaterboxes and a turbo muffler (might go with a 1-1/2" heaterbox system once we get a gas heater rebuilt). We'll have to compare performance and fuel mileage.

We've got a set of 77's and a 76 crank for a 'square' engine - 1416cc's, thinkin' of rebuilding my old FI 33x30 dual port heads if we go through with that experiment.

[mightymanx]

Sounds good I wish I had the time to and $$ to experiment. If this 2110 turns out to be a dog my fall back plan is to put a tiny turbo (need it to spool at low rpm) to give it a little boost just 5-8 psi or so. hope it dosen't resort to this trying to get heater on a turbo system will be a nightmare in plumbing. but a turbo westy does have a cool factor to it.

Dan

[Marc]

...a turbo westy does have a cool factor to it. ...

Shoulda seen the Westy with a Golf TDI 1800 Diesel shoehorned into it that was at Bow-Wow in Lynnwood last week. It fit the hole like it was made for it - things were a little crowded, but maintenance accessibility didn't look too bad. Unfortunately when the owner installed it he must've jumped some teeth on the timing belt, several valves had smacked pistons and it was in no condition to test-drive

[mightymanx]

I would love to see that. I am a huge diesel fan reliable and fuel efficent with torque hmmm... maby in the next re-creation the diesel westy.